Drugs on site

[Treewolf]

4 hours ago, Rich Rule said:

Now who is ranting.? 
 

No, I feel it is relevant.

 

So many are finding it hard to find staff. 

 

It wasn’t the reasoning behind your text is was the stab at the starter of this thread saying he wasn’t fit to run a business that I thought was out of order.

 

If you read my post you would see I agree with most of what you had written

 

My rant was at naive individuals, not directly you,  Especially regarding the drinking of alcohol comments.

 

 

Ah, thank you for clearing up my misunderstanding. I wasn't intentionally suggesting for a minute that the the starter of the thread wasn't fit to run a business, and I am sorry if that is what you thought I was saying.

 

In fact I applaud the starter of the thread, someone who has identified a problem, isn't sure how to deal with it, and has asked for advice and suggestions. Absolutely sensible and responsible behaviour in my opinion. I would question the judgement of any person who turned a blind eye in such a situation (although we'd never know because they'd be unlikely to ask for advice)

 

I also understand that it is difficult to find staff, and difficult to screen potential staff for alcohol/drug dependence, but that difficulty doesn't mitigate our responsibility to ensure that we are safe.

 

I suspect that we are actually all on the same page. 

 

@Tree Brother, I hope that you didn't feel offended by anything in my post, because that was categorically not my intention.

[Clutchy]

The issue with drug testing, is that someone who could be a great employee, may decide to partake in weed of an evening, which will have zero effect on him/her the next day, yet would show up on urine tests for up to 30 days. 

 

I'd rather take on someone like the above, than someone drug free who was incompetent and therefore more dangerous. I know your response will be don't hire incompetent tree surgeons but after you've axed 50% who are drug takers, you aren't left with many competent ones   😂

[Rich Rule]

Therein lies the rub.

[Mark J]

6 hours ago, Steven P said:

I guess my next comment might be is how big was the bag of white powder - a comment about electrolytes above (apart from that perhaps better to belong with his lunch), they are quite large bags, drugs, quite small bags and easy to tell apart? Large bags of illegal drugs brings a whole new world of pain for you of course.

True, but without testing the powder there is no proof that it was indeed an illicit substance. Even if the climber thought it was speed or coke he might have shady dealer who peddles a caffeine/creatine/benzocaine mixture and labels it as something else; he might also have found it in his wife/kid's bag and was waiting to confront them when home.  The best thing to do is talk to him, I think, and get to the bottom of it. It's a slippery slope when people accuse others without any proof. 

[topchippyles]

1 hour ago, Clutchy said:

The issue with drug testing, is that someone who could be a great employee, may decide to partake in weed of an evening, which will have zero effect on him/her the next day, yet would show up on urine tests for up to 30 days. 

 

I'd rather take on someone like the above, than someone drug free who was incompetent and therefore more dangerous. I know your response will be don't hire incompetent tree surgeons but after you've axed 50% who are drug takers, you aren't left with many competent ones   😂

My best mate has his own roofing firm with a great reputation nearly all the lads smoke weed. If they are on a private self build in the middle of nowhere they will have a joint in work. Give you an idea of his customers. Geraint Thomas who won the tour de France is one. Adrian newey the redbull F1 designer is another.

Edited October 9, 2023 by topchippyles

[dan blocker]

So they’re high as a kite when high on a roof? But it’s ok cos they’re working for VIPs and celebrities🤔. It makes no different who they’re clients are top’es, they’re still pot heads(don’t think professional cycling can take the moral high ground on drug taking either? Not saying Geraint Thomas as ever taken drugs?( I’m sure he hasn’t)Having said that even the military are getting soft. Years ago if you failed a drugs test - you were history, apparently these days you may get a 2nd chance after some help and therapy😳. Lions led by namby pamby bloody donkeys. That’s what this country in becoming - too tolerant of things that are just plain wrong!

[Mike Hill]

Two of the best old growth fallers I ever worked with smoked weed.At work.

 

One of them had a great voice and would belt out country and western classics all day.He could lay out a strip like a giant had combed all the trees over,he must have been in his early 60s. The other was a Vietnam veteran,who was incredibly tough. 

[difflock]

As 64 year old absolute non drug user, well cept moderate alcohol, but not while driving, I am somewhat ambivalent on this vexxed issue, knowing, mostly through the TA 40 odd year ago, many genuninely high functioning alcoholics, nevermind acquinticences in the RUC ( some of whom who were rarely sober), never never mind the long deceased FIL, an Army bloke that routinely drove while well stocious(but never ever had an accident), plus an uncle of sorts that drunk and drove home, again 40 odd years back, again without accident or incident.

And we wont mention the relation of sorts in SB, who job was to sit in pubs and drink and listen, and then drive home, part of hs cover I suppose, though he did write off a few cars, in SVC's. No doubt at HMG's expense?

So it can be done, most probably with age and experience, aka habituation.

And an old uncle spoke of a truely gifted signwrighter, who could not preform unless fettled wi drink.

But as mentioned, in todays society, 

LIABILITY! 

P.S.

My rueful observation, based on this forum, is that the arb inductry has, overall,  a significent problem with substance abuse.

 

[Sviatoslav Tulin]

On 08/10/2023 at 17:37, Rich Rule said:

Where about are you based?  How long have you worked in Arb?

 

IME there are a hell of a lot of wreck heads in this line of work in the UK.  I lived and worked in South East London for 16 years before I moved to Norway.

 

There are levels to these things.  
 

Of course if you have contracts that require random Drug and Alcohol tests then that is a necessity.  Most companies don’t have those obligations…

 

So to take a stab at someone saying they are not fit to run a business because they have a user on the crew, is a bit out of line IMO.

 

As for the naive, hypocritical people who think that drinking the night before is OK but drugs deserve them to receive a smack over the head with a shovel and then kicked off site.  

Get a ****************ing grip.

 

What type of drugs warrant a smack with a shovel?  Serious question?

 

Coffee?

Cocodamol?

Oxycontin?

Weed?

Tobacco?

Alcohol?

Poppers?

Amphetamines?

Anti depressants?

Allergy tablets?

Night nurse?

Cocaine?

Heroin?

 

any others?

They all have an effect on the person who takes them.

 

FTR I have worked with and don’t appreciate working with people who have had a skinful the night before.  Yet have worked with many a productive person who has had a joint the night before.

 

I don’t condone drinking and being hungover at all in this industry.  Nor taking drugs whilst at work.  The only thing warranting a smack over the head with a shovel is a crack head trying to steel my shit at lunch time.

 

As I said, there are levels.

 

Now to address the original post.  
 

Would you have known if he hadn’t dropped the baggie?  Was he generally a productive and safe climber who contributes to a good atmosphere and is a team player?  
 

IMO it was his fault to have it on site and drop it during the days work.  For that you need to have a word and decide if you need to take action.  He will have lost his own job through his own actions.

 

Of course if he has a major problem and can’t make it through a day without a line then he also has a problem.  A problem that requires money to fill his wants.  Again a dumb decision on his part for getting caught so deserves to go.

 

I didn’t say drinking night before, it’s obvious you can’t even drive after good drink last night, but 1 beer at evening and 8 hour sleep I see no problem . Any stuff on site deserve smack with shuffle , even some prescribed drugs affect you in bad way , I seen how gambling addiction and simple computer games affect people so much , that it impossible to trust them even bring the bags with ropes so lunatics they where.  So there is no levels of this things around me ,if you want ckrackheads  running around you that’s fine.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Sviatoslav Tulin

[Tree Brother]

17 hours ago, Treewolf said:

Ah, thank you for clearing up my misunderstanding. I wasn't intentionally suggesting for a minute that the the starter of the thread wasn't fit to run a business, and I am sorry if that is what you thought I was saying.

 

In fact I applaud the starter of the thread, someone who has identified a problem, isn't sure how to deal with it, and has asked for advice and suggestions. Absolutely sensible and responsible behaviour in my opinion. I would question the judgement of any person who turned a blind eye in such a situation (although we'd never know because they'd be unlikely to ask for advice)

 

I also understand that it is difficult to find staff, and difficult to screen potential staff for alcohol/drug dependence, but that difficulty doesn't mitigate our responsibility to ensure that we are safe.

 

I suspect that we are actually all on the same page. 

 

@Tree Brother, I hope that you didn't feel offended by anything in my post, because that was categorically not my intention.

Not at all, I'm finding the responses very helpful. I'm glad I reached out. It is a very serious issue, and I will be taking on board a lot of your guys' valuable advice to inform my decision making moving forward. The buck does indeed stop with me.