Illegal tree felling in England to be punishable with jail and uncapped fines

[Squaredy]

6 hours ago, nepia said:

Did someone dab him in it to try and put him in his plaice or was it just an unfortunate act of cod that the FC found out?  Bet he's a sole trader

I don’t know how NRW got involved sorry. 

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

On 02/01/2023 at 22:44, Squaredy said:

I was approached recently for help from someone who has been accused by NRW (FC in Wales) of illegal felling.  They were all over him, yet they had no idea how to calculate timber volume.  
 

They wasted loads of their time and their victim’s falsely accusing him of criminality.  They had measured the eight trees in question and then used those measurements to determine the volume felled was 5.2 cubic metre.  What they seemed unaware of is that trees taper.  Using their measurements and average diameter the actual timber felled was less than 4 cubic metres.

 

 Yes, they really had calculated the volume of each log based on the diameter at the thick end only.  And these people probably have forestry degrees and pretty good salaries paid for by our taxes!

Never met a single one that’s worth a toss

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

19 hours ago, daltontrees said:

I doubt if it was that straightforward.

The FC has published a book (free) on how to measure or estimate itmber volume. By far the most fickle is working out volume based only on stumps, due to basal flare (not stem taper, that is easy to allow for).

Average diameter is NOT a reliable basis for caculating volume, precisely because of taper, which is not uniform along stem. This changes depending on species, habit, exposure, growing conditions, crown damage and loads of other things.

So what was the outcome, did FC drop the prosecution?

I don't think you can infer incompetence from the abilities of a couple of officers. But the old guard who know their stuff are fewer and fewer.

Mensuration is piss easy. FC should be able to get it right, as they wrote the book.

You wouldn’t judge a whole organisation by a couple of examples but when the examples are duplicated and replicated, in all but identical anecdotal reference from completely unconnected experiences from all points of the compass - that’s when you start to get a feel for systemic, organisational lack of competence and relevance. 

[Paul in the woods]

Looking at the tiny number of convictions it's a shame they didn't take the opportunity to update the exemptions. If you rolled the 5 cube a quarter up into 20 cube a year then I expect over half the complaints could be dealt with very quickly. 

 

I'm my case I have to use the exemptions as the FC couldn't be bothered to approve my felling licence after I spent a fair bit of time and money applying for one. Not uncommon I gather.

[Mack]

2 hours ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

You wouldn’t judge a whole organisation by a couple of examples but when the examples are duplicated and replicated, in all but identical anecdotal reference from completely unconnected experiences from all points of the compass - that’s when you start to get a feel for systemic, organisational lack of competence and relevance. 

Bit confused what I was reading for a second. I thought you were talking about Johnsond, trigger andy, mull, and Scotland. Had to read back in the thread for reference.

[Dillinger86]

I recently stepped down from a job as the client wasn't prepared to wait for a felling license, another contractor trashed a stretch of woodland much to the anger of the residents that lived along the other side of the road. Someone had contacted the FC to only to be informed a few days later that they had obtained a felling license.. Didn't realise one could be obtained within the space of a week lol

[petercb]

In fairness to the FC my local officer has been great with us but he is experienced and enthusiastic. Very supportive and helpul and knows his stuff. Management Plan and Felling licence approved in about 6 weeks.

That said a lot of the previous officers were young girls (not a sexist comment!) with biology degrees fresh out of Uni. who then after a few months disappeared on maternity leave (not guilty m'lud).

[peatff]

On 03/01/2023 at 18:36, daltontrees said:

 It's the mystique about mensuration that dissuades, but the maths is simple.

 

I'm baffled, what's tree size got to do with women's periods ?

[Stubby]

8 hours ago, peatff said:

 

I'm baffled, what's tree size got to do with women's periods ?

FFS don't argue .....🙂

[waterbuoy]

removed 'cos post to which it related has been deleted

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by waterbuoy