Will a lot of small domestic tree firms go bust?

[Clutchy]

Just now, Puffingbilly413 said:

  A small firm that has no finance on its kit etc with no or minimal yard rent could whether such a storm quite well potentially.

Totally get what you're saying about including sole traders, I'm just saying we can't get the data so lets move on from that small part. They are included, we just don't know how many, we also don't know how many limited companies either 

I genuinely don't know, but are there large domestic only tree companies? 

I suppose if you have very wealthy domestic clients, they would still be calling. I really don't know haven't been in business during a recession before. 

[Retired Climber]

34 minutes ago, GarethM said:

Glad I'm not the only voice of some common sense. Even sole traders are companies of sorts, obviously the distinction should have been a die off of ltd and other registered companies.

It's nothing to do with common sense. You are misunderstanding the word company. 

[Puffingbilly413]

1 minute ago, Clutchy said:

I genuinely don't know, but are there large domestic only tree companies?

I guess it depends what we really mean by commercial in this context.  Are we talking firms that have contracts (eg council, highways, rail etc) or all firms that do carry out works for other businesses?

If it's the latter, then I don't know of any firms who do zero commercial stuff - but some will do more and others less.  Personally, I can't be bothered with commercial stuff - mostly because I find letting agents and the like (where most of our commercial stuff tends to come from) take the piss.  But that's another story.

The local examples I'm thinking of will have a high percentage of domestic clients but will also do loads of commercial work.

Firms have different operating set ups too.  Very common to have one or two man bands that use a network of freelancers to bulk out the team when required.  And it works both ways.  This is how we operate, for example.  Has its downsides - you need to plan out well ahead of time to make sure you have a decent climber booked in; it's very difficult to cover emergency work for this reason; if a job runs over for whatever reason then you don't have the fall back of a full-time team to come back the next day.  But there are positives - no staff, so no pressure to put money on people's tables; no pensions to pay, no payroll to manage, minimal staff issues.

Linking back to your original question again - I'm hoping that being small and with a fairly simple and uncluttered operating model, we should be able to keep going.  If not I'll just sell the kit off and sit at home watching TJ Hooker in my pants and flipflops.

[Puffingbilly413]

6 minutes ago, Retired Climber said:

It's nothing to do with common sense. You are misunderstanding the word company. 

He's not really.  A company is an organisation that sells goods or services to make a profit.  There are various types of course, and sole trader would be one.  Perhaps 'limited company' is what you're meaning.

 

Semantics I know but I know you like those!

Edited October 22, 2022 by Puffingbilly413

[AHPP]

4 hours ago, GarethM said:

I am a sole trader of a couple of small companies. 

You’re not. You’re the individual natural person Gareth M of <home address>. You might trade as Gareth M or you might call yourself something like Clearview Tree Services or Supersmooth Driveways. Either way, you’re acting as Gareth M. You form contracts as Gareth M, you get sued at your home address as Gareth M. If you want to trade under a name like Clearview or Supersmooth, call it a firm or a business because it’s not a limited company.
 

Think of a company like a boat. You go on the companies house website, pay them £9 ish and you get a boat that you name Clearview Tree Services Limited, company number 12345678, registered in England, registered office <accountant’s address>. You, Gareth M are the director. You get in the boat and steer it round. Deals your customers do are with the boat. Money in stays on the boat and you use money kept on the boat to buy stuff. If the boat gets sued and is going to lose everything, you go and sink it somewhere. Gareth M swims back to shore and lives to fight another day. You can have as many boats as you like. Your tree business boat might be sunk but your driveway business boat still has a load of money in it and is still sailing round doing stuff. 

 

tl:dr Unless you've paid companies house the £9 to have a company with a company number, you don't have a company and shouldn't call whatever you have a company.

Edited October 22, 2022 by AHPP

[GarethM]

If you want to be pedantic, it's me trading as insert company name.

 

Don't you think I know the difference between them and have chosen what is best ?, I've even said it's a future goal. So why jump feet first until you get on your feet instead of going ltd and falling on your face as per the initial topic!.

Edited October 22, 2022 by GarethM

[Mick Dempsey]

Anyway, back to the original intent of the thread.

 

I doubt whether they’ll be many insolvencies, but a lot of kit will be sold off very cheap to pay off debts before a lot of warehouse/supermarket jobs get applied for.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Mick Dempsey

[AHPP]

2 hours ago, GarethM said:

If you want to be pedantic, it's me trading as insert company name.

 

It’s not a company name because it’s not a company. It’s a sole trader trading as whatever. Call it a business or a firm or an enterprise or a commercial endeavour but it isn’t a company. 
 

[GarethM]

Is this really the horse you wish to flog?.

[AHPP]

1 minute ago, GarethM said:

Is this really the horse you wish to flog?.

I assume you mean is this the hill I want to die on? Whatever. 

 

Whether I’m flogging a dead horse is down to you btw.