Who's problem/who pays?

[john87]

1 hour ago, Retired Climber said:

It's entirely down to the contract between the freelancer and the business. As the freelancer is not an employee, employment law does not apply; as both parties are businesses, consumer law does not apply. The answer will be in the contract. What 'usually' happens is of little relevance. 

But ARE they an "employee" I think you will find that they most definitely are...

 

john..

[Retired Climber]

1 minute ago, john87 said:

But ARE they an "employee" I think you will find that they most definitely are...

 

john..

I deliberately avoided that particular can of worms and just concentrated on the question asked. 

[josharb87]

2 hours ago, benedmonds said:

So who pays for damage when the freelancer causes damage to the employers kit or during works?

Freelancer. 
 

I see it as 2 companies, size is irrelevant. If one co damages another co’s kit, its down to the damager’s co to pay. 
Downside of being a freelancer who’s earning more coin but a benefit of being an employee taking home less 

 

if the damage is sizeable the freelancer should have insurance in place 

[Con]

It seems to me, there's no hard and fast rules. It should be down a mass brawl at the base of the tree.

[Rich Rule]

7 hours ago, josharb87 said:

 

if the damage is sizeable the freelancer should have insurance in place 

???

 

I thought this had been covered multiple times.  I was in such a position about 10 years ago.  Helping a mate out on a freelance basis.  He asked me to move some boards on an asbestos roof.  One of the main joists collapsed as the garages had moved due to subsidence (Hence the reason the tree was coming out).  I ended up in  a pile of timber and asbestos sheet, dust and other shite on the garage floor.  

 

The lady who owned the garage tried to pull a fast one and make him pay for a block of 9 new garages.  He tried to claim on the insurance I had (with trust).
 

They told him that it was his responsibility and it should have been in his insurance and that the freelancers (my) insurance was pointless.   Shame they didn’t tell me that when I took the policy out 3 years earlier.
 

I would consider a rebuild of 9 garages a lot bigger than a few fence panels.  
 

I called my insurance company (Trust) and cancelled the policy.

 

It is different in Scandinavia, that incident I described was in South East London.

[Mick Dempsey]

If it’s low cost stuff like rope, common sense should apply.

 

If the (freelance) climber didn’t rig a branch correctly and a fence panel got fecked, the contractor would be justified in deducting a bit to cover the cost, the freelance climber is there specifically because he won’t bugger stuff up.

 

If he put a roof in like Travor, the contractor’s insurance pays and you start looking for other climbers.

 

My 2c

[Steve Bullman]

3 minutes ago, Mick Dempsey said:

If it’s low cost stuff like rope, common sense should apply.

 

If the (freelance) climber didn’t rig a branch correctly and a fence panel got fecked, the contractor would be justified in deducting a bit to cover the cost, the freelance climber is there specifically because he won’t bugger stuff up.

 

If he put a roof in like Travor, the contractor’s insurance pays and you start looking for other climbers.

 

My 2c

Agree with alll that. The climber knows full well of the damage could have been avoided, in which case they should pay the same for their carelessness.

 

I have in the past had discussions with people I was climbing for prior to work to clarify that I would not be responsible for any damage. Typically when working over something like an asbestos roof that the smallest rogue peg could end up damaging 

[Mick Dempsey]

 Not relevant, but I rigged a branch over an asbestos roof no problem, then tidied the stub up and a 1 inch piece span off the end of the guide bar and put a small hole in the roof.

 

Cue men in hazmat suits a big insurance claim and the client got a nice new roof on their outbuilding.

 

(2001 btw)

[Mr. Squirrel]

Company pays. All of the ins and outs of freelancer or subcontractor blah blah… not relevant here in my opinion. If you’re using your own gear on someone else’s job and one of their employees wrecks it then they replace it. It’s not like ropes are even that expensive to a company, but coming off a freelancers day rate aye it’s a big whack. 

[Mick Dempsey]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Squirrel said:

Company pays. All of the ins and outs of freelancer or subcontractor blah blah… not relevant here in my opinion. If you’re using your own gear on someone else’s job and one of their employees wrecks it then they replace it. It’s not like ropes are even that expensive to a company, but coming off a freelancers day rate aye it’s a big whack. 

That’s about the bones of it, but…..

 

Say you’ve got a 50 mètre lowering rope and a groundy nicked the  knotted end processing a branch and you lose 2 mètres.

Do you charge the contractor (with whom you probably have a decent relationship) a price for the whole rope, or do you let it slide, break out the insulation tape and a cigarette lighter and get by with 48  meters?

Edited July 15, 2022 by Mick Dempsey
What can I say? I Love editing!