Sharks Gill felling cut.

[Joe Newton]

 

 

This seems to be the new trendy felling cut on social media. I believe the intended application is getting side leaners to hold a hinge.

 

I'm always skeptical about stuff like this. Reckon it's more for YouTube likes than anything. Most of the comments are noshing off the poster so I assume they're people with little to no arb background.

 

Any time served fallers using this cut to good effect? I'm happy to be proven wrong but I struggle to see how this is better than just leaving a thick hinge.  

[Pete Mctree]

Never cut as many as that, but I will put one or 2 plunge cuts in to help a corner hold. I heard about it on the treehouse a few years ago I think.

 

One of those trick cuts that help but not to be relied upon completely.  You still need strong basic felling skills as a foundation before you try anything like this, which sadly 90% of arbs neglect to invest the time and effort into.

[Joe Newton]

14 minutes ago, Pete Mctree said:

Never cut as many as that, but I will put one or 2 plunge cuts in to help a corner hold. I heard about it on the treehouse a few years ago I think.

 

One of those trick cuts that help but not to be relied upon completely.  You still need strong basic felling skills as a foundation before you try anything like this, which sadly 90% of arbs neglect to invest the time and effort into.

That's what I figured in a nutshell Pete.  You're not going to rely on it if it really matters.

 

Any insight into how its better than just a thick hinge? I thought less potential for a barber chair if there's a really strong pull, but not sure if that checks out. 

[Will C]

Load of tosh and completely pointless in that application, that tree would of come over with a deeper gob, straight back cut and a quick smack of a wedge or felling bar if you really wanted to make sure in under half the time. 
the time he spend pissing about could of seen the majority of the tree sned out and chipped (prob all looking at the boxer and big chipper)

 

I have seen similar done once on high value timber, but the cutter even admitted the letterbox would be just as good and probably quicker to prevent a barbers chair/ripped fibres.

[Pete Mctree]

10 hours ago, Joe Newton said:

 

 

Any insight into how its better than just a thick hinge? I thought less potential for a barber chair if there's a really strong pull, but not sure if that checks out. 

It works by allowing the hinge fibres to flex significantly more before they break or pull, so increasing the strength/duration before failing. The cut shown on the vid set up a 2nd hinge behind the first and the relief cut allowing them to both flex.

As for creating a barbers chair - there is still the potential but because the hinge is more flexible you can leave it thicker

[Mike Hill]

I was taught that cut nearly 30 years ago.

 

It was used on heavy leaning old growth, if you did a traditional bore and release the big ones could barber chair from the shear tension that was placed on the back strap from cutting out the middle.

 

The first bore cut established the hinge at the finnish of the cut. The second cut was a bar hight behind the first. The third the same untill you had 1/10 of the tree diameter remaining. These were big trees that sometimes needed boring out with a 36" bar from both sides.

 

Then you released the cut from on to two bar hights below the lowest cut ( bottom of the gob) level.

 

On the big ones you could hear the wood between the cuts shearing one after the other and you could feel the shock's through the roots.

[Mark Bolam]

I have used this cut a few times when I’ve been too drunk to remember which way to hold the saw.

[drinksloe]

I've tried it and not often  but never really in anger, must admit i didn't think u bored all the way throu a tree i just thought u put it in a few inches or even  on a large tree and usually i'm only ever concerned about the inside side of hinge holding so have only bored in that side

Would probably say not the best tree to demo it on in video fairly small and straight

 

 

Must admit i had a tree go wrong with me a few years ago, don't get me wrong  a fair bit of operator on my part, cuts were prety good but should never attempted to put it where i did but anywhere else would off been a nightmare to process

Tree was far too heavy with far too much back lean and too many big pappy branches on it ( some of lower 1's where size of ur leg) Just a horrible horrible tree beside a hual road and steep banking.

And the wind really picked up mid cut, but a combination of wedges and 30T bottle jack i thought i had it.

It was a big horrible hairy edge Sitka, a proper fat arseed 4ft+ but with the toes off, and right on the corner so weight on both the 'wrong' sides

But i still think i had left the hinge too thick on the inside and it wanted to go but hinge wouldn't flex and it snapped off and went over the gully.

I had the back cut lifted a good 3 or 4" and thought it was going easier

Hinge on the inside must of been 9" and just nibbling wee bits off it as i jacked, be very little on outside althou not quite a dutchman

I always thought if i had done some vertical bores it might of allowed that side of the hinge to flex more i might of got it but it did have some weight and lean on it and the wind was final nail in coffin. But as i said i thought i had it as was just beginning to jack a lot easier.

If the wind was blowing as strong when i started i would of hinged it different

But i had already done 5 or 6 similar but slightly smaller trees just along the roadside into the wind to build up my confidence for the real big bugger and all came in easy.

 

End of day no on was hurt and tree ended up on deck and missed the road, but was a pure bugger to process and ended up 1 of those trees ur snedding it and butt is way above ur head ur just waiting/wondering which way its going to roll as u sned it out or how fast it will come down.

Which was why i tried to hold it nearer woodside

 

In hindsight i probably should of put it there anyway and saved myself a lot of wedging and jacking but was a pure bugger to sned and even a medium sized Tigercat couldn't drag it back in when sned and they have some power

 

There is an other cut designed to increase hinge flex/strength which i do use more often with big outsiders.the Swizel or Sizwell? cut

I do think it works althou u have to keep ur back cut pretty low, they definately pull a lot of timber/fibres on the side u put it in on

 

I think with any of these more advanced cuts they only work in certain timbers ( and not even all softwoods, wouldn't try 1 in Norway spruce) and if the cut dosen't work u have to be ok with that, ie no houses or serious targets if it goes wrong.

End of day ur only putting them into trees that are weighted wrong so always a chance of breaking off anyway, if in doubt ur gooing to need a rope/winch/machine on it

 

I dunno where u stand if u use 1 of these more advanced cuts and something goes wrong?

Is ur insurance still valid

I know they claim some foresters come round after inspecting ur cuts

[slack ma girdle]

3 hours ago, drinksloe said:

I've tried it and not often  but never really in anger, must admit i didn't think u bored all the way throu a tree i just thought u put it in a few inches or even  on a large tree and usually i'm only ever concerned about the inside side of hinge holding so have only bored in that side

Would probably say not the best tree to demo it on in video fairly small and straight

 

 

Must admit i had a tree go wrong with me a few years ago, don't get me wrong  a fair bit of operator on my part, cuts were prety good but should never attempted to put it where i did but anywhere else would off been a nightmare to process

Tree was far too heavy with far too much back lean and too many big pappy branches on it ( some of lower 1's where size of ur leg) Just a horrible horrible tree beside a hual road and steep banking.

And the wind really picked up mid cut, but a combination of wedges and 30T bottle jack i thought i had it.

It was a big horrible hairy edge Sitka, a proper fat arseed 4ft+ but with the toes off, and right on the corner so weight on both the 'wrong' sides

But i still think i had left the hinge too thick on the inside and it wanted to go but hinge wouldn't flex and it snapped off and went over the gully.

I had the back cut lifted a good 3 or 4" and thought it was going easier

Hinge on the inside must of been 9" and just nibbling wee bits off it as i jacked, be very little on outside althou not quite a dutchman

I always thought if i had done some vertical bores it might of allowed that side of the hinge to flex more i might of got it but it did have some weight and lean on it and the wind was final nail in coffin. But as i said i thought i had it as was just beginning to jack a lot easier.

If the wind was blowing as strong when i started i would of hinged it different

But i had already done 5 or 6 similar but slightly smaller trees just along the roadside into the wind to build up my confidence for the real big bugger and all came in easy.

 

End of day no on was hurt and tree ended up on deck and missed the road, but was a pure bugger to process and ended up 1 of those trees ur snedding it and butt is way above ur head ur just waiting/wondering which way its going to roll as u sned it out or how fast it will come down.

Which was why i tried to hold it nearer woodside

 

In hindsight i probably should of put it there anyway and saved myself a lot of wedging and jacking but was a pure bugger to sned and even a medium sized Tigercat couldn't drag it back in when sned and they have some power

 

There is an other cut designed to increase hinge flex/strength which i do use more often with big outsiders.the Swizel or Sizwell? cut

I do think it works althou u have to keep ur back cut pretty low, they definately pull a lot of timber/fibres on the side u put it in on

 

I think with any of these more advanced cuts they only work in certain timbers ( and not even all softwoods, wouldn't try 1 in Norway spruce) and if the cut dosen't work u have to be ok with that, ie no houses or serious targets if it goes wrong.

End of day ur only putting them into trees that are weighted wrong so always a chance of breaking off anyway, if in doubt ur gooing to need a rope/winch/machine on it

 

I dunno where u stand if u use 1 of these more advanced cuts and something goes wrong?

Is ur insurance still valid

I know they claim some foresters come round after inspecting ur cuts

One of these, larch with a heavy lean towards 33kv power line. This is the last of a row of 7.

I have alot go wrong in the past ,  and have been practicing were its doesn't matter.

[drinksloe]

Looks like the sizwell done its job well 👍

U do get some real decent fibre pull with them and it always/mostly seems to pull down into the root plate and not up into the timber like a normal gub can if u havenae done sap wood cuts. I've never noticed much tearing in the bottom log

 

Aye i'm the same as u practice any of these more advanced cuts when it doesn't really matter and see how they cope.

The only problem is every tree is different so u will never truely know if u done something different

 

Did u put a rope on to just for belt and braces since a power line?

Would u subsitute this sharks tooth cut instaed of that swizel cut?

.

Ive found larch to be a queer tree at times most of time hinges hold real good but every now and again 1 surprises u and breaks of on u.

To be fair most of the time that happens ur cuts have not been 100% spot on