Hunting in the UK

[Guest Gimlet]

47 minutes ago, AHPP said:

So you have a hierarchy of backscratching dolescum. Organisations like BASC and BDS (and noteworthily the NRA) have every opportunity to push for real change to promote their members’ interests but all they actually do is form working parties, consult, draft papers, hold meetings, propose, discuss, revise, report back, redraft, etc (months of fruitful work…). I’m sympathetic to those caught twixt principle and commercial reality but men shouldn’t lie down for this sort of thing and a lot of men lie down rather too easily.

Apart from the dolescum bit, I'm inclined to agree. I've said more than once on the other hunting thread, and this one, that BDS and BASC are in great part responsible for the over-supply of stalkers without ground - or if we're going to be honest, any good reason to possess - queuing up to to join the scrum for ever more expensive scraps of land where the principles of sustainable population control and any possibility of a coordinated management strategy have gone out of the window. If only they were dolescum who were making it up as they go along (as in thicko chavs rather than well organised and professional system-riggers - but I think I know what you mean now) it would be a lot easier to loosen their grip and press the reset button. 

 

Unfortunately the good guys, that is, the principled and highly knowledgeable amateurs, the conscientious landowners and estate managers and the genuine professional deer managers (as distinct from stalking day marketeers and sub-letters) are cannon fodder for the political and media establishment, who only relate to cliques and bodies, because that's the world they live in themselves. 

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Gimlet

[AHPP]

Dolescumminess transcends class.

 

The queen

Subsidised landowners

State, state emanation and state-dependent contractors

Council executives

MOT testers

Kevin on jobseeker’s

 

All the same.

 

 

[Johnsond]

5 hours ago, jmac said:

Is it not still illegal to shoot deer using thermal or night vision scopes. None of the contractors about here use them, only spotting scopes then switch to spotlight for the actual shot.

Few others have answered the above question but in a nutshell the darkness is no longer any protection for Deer or other animals regardless of the legality, take foxing for example, there’s  a whole industry devoted to high tech kit and ever more potent rifle/cartridge combos. Regards my own standards I’m proud to say I’ve never pulled the trigger on any animal at a range greater than 150m, the whole field craft aspect of getting close is more of an achievement for me than the the shot itself. 

[Guest Gimlet]

Well, they have. As has been stated, it remains illegal to shoot deer (and only deer - night shooting of vermin, regardless of the type of sight deployed has always been permitted) later than one hour after sunset, or earlier than one hour before sunrise, without an A16 permit.  

Night vision equipment of itself is neither good nor bad. It is a boon or an abuse depending on who's using it and why. 

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Gimlet

[Stere]

Imformative posts  thanks.

 

Is  the reasoning behind the the no shoot night regs suppose to  prevent illegal shooting, or an animal welfare issue?

[Guest Gimlet]

1 hour ago, Stere said:

Imformative posts  thanks.

 

Is  the reasoning behind the the no shoot night regs suppose to  prevent illegal shooting, or an animal welfare issue?

The legislation doesn't give specific reasons. They are likely to be various, accrued over a long period of time. It has always been illegal to hunt game at night, largely to make life difficult for poachers. But deer are not legally classed as game. They're not vermin either (which can be hunted at night), they're just wildlife. But historically, discouraging poaching will have a lot to do with it. If no one is allowed to hunt them at night, that makes it a lot easier to identify night time poaching. 

 

It's also much harder to identify your desired target animal at night - you don't shoot deer indiscriminately. There are different close season for the two sexes and there are specific animals you will want to cull and ones which you will want to spare. It's harder to make that call in the dark. (With vermin, there are no close seasons and you don't cherry pick target animals. It's usually zero tolerance. That isn't necessarily the best approach with foxes, but that's a whole other thread).

 

Also, for most of the year, native British deer tend to be herd or at least family group animals. They will move around at night in groups and shooting in the dark increases the risk of causing unintentional injury or death to a non-target animal. That's a moot point really, since whatever you're shooting, whether it's in daylight or darkness, you should never take the shot unless you are 100% sure of where the bullet will come to rest if you miss or if it passes clean through the quarry and travels on.

It is also harder to track a wounded animal at night unless you have the necessary skills and a suitably trained dog (specific provision for night time tracking is written into the night shooting licensing legislation). 

 

There is also a widely held view that deer are very much more stressed when hunted at night. They venture out into the open after dark because they feel safer and if harassed at night they can be driven to panic and injury in the darkness.

 

All the above combined make night shooting undesirable as a widespread practice. 

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Gimlet

[Mike Hill]

12 hours ago, Gimlet said:

If you've never shot a cartridge rifle, you definitely need to be taken under someone's wing, at the very least to learn gun drill. It's a whole other level of risk from airguns and shotguns and one mistake can be catastrophic. Shotgun shot and airgun pellets travel 300 - 500 yards before all their energy is expended and they fall out of the sky like raindrops. A bullet from a deer-legal cartridge could travel 5000 yards and could still be lethal when it hits the ground. No FEO is likely to grant an FAC for any kind of rifle for someone who has never shot one before unless it's for exclusive club use. 

You need to go out shooting with someone experienced and it would be a good idea to do a firearms handling training course. But even then, you're highly likely to get a mentoring restriction for your first five years, meaning you can only shoot under the supervision of an approved individual. Mentoring restrictions are less common than they once were but AFAIK they are still in the guidelines.  

If you've had a shotgun certificate before that will help you greatly because at least you will have a clean track record with firearms licensing. If you've been a long term member of a clay shooting club or game shoot,m that will help too. At least you will be a trusted person, if not one experienced with rifles. If you've never had any kind of firearm license before, you definitely won't get a deer rifle at the first attempt. You need to think about getting experience and a track record. That might start with training and paid stalks if you don't know anyone to mentor you.  

So glad I dont have to deal with such bollocks.

 

Firearms are tools, Rifles are no more dangerous than a Oxy cutting set.I find it so sad that firearms owner talk up the perceived danger of firearms themselves, but I guess thats a product of how hard they are to acess in the UK.

[Guest Gimlet]

16 minutes ago, Mike Hill said:

So glad I dont have to deal with such bollocks.

 

Firearms are tools, Rifles are no more dangerous than a Oxy cutting set.I find it so sad that firearms owner talk up the perceived danger of firearms themselves, but I guess thats a product of how hard they are to acess in the UK.

An over-excited or cack-handed fool with an oxy cutting set can't accidentally kill someone a mile away with it. 

I friend of mine had his hat shot off by a negligently discharged .308 round loosed off by an idiot novice who he had taken his eye off for a split second. 

I have had a loaded rifle pointed at me negligently by a novice guest who failed after repeated warnings to observe safe gun drill (his stalking trip ended at that point but he still had to pay the bill).  

 

The UK has 700 people per square mile nationally, and in England it's 1000 per square mile. That a lot more unintended targets than you've got in Norway.

 

Also if you think the dangers of firearms are perceived rather than real, go and take a look on Youtube at what has happened to many other people who thought the same. 

 

Plus, for better or worse, firearms are heavily legislated in the UK. I want to keep using mine. I don't want to lose them because of some moron. It's in my interests to talk up the dangers and reduce the chances of getting tarred by someone else's brush.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Gimlet

[Mike Hill]

Well nearly every kid in Norway gets drafted. Given a select fire rifle/pistol/smg to keep at home untill they are 40 years old, these guns dont factor in crime stats really.

 

In the UK you have an idiot problem, heavy legislation wont stop idiots taking shots with no backstop.

 

An oxy set wont kill a person at a mile but a Rifle won't kill half a bus load of people at once either.

 

Anyway. If the op wants some game meat, or to try using a Rifle he could do worse to offer his help to a pest controller. Cleaning his wagon, spliting/cutting wood etc. Earn his trust in order to be given a privilage.

[roboted]

Another problem, very prevalent in this area, incomers don't  want anything shot on their land. Ten years ago it was 50 acre blocks now its 2/3/4 hundred  acre blocks. Add to that the land collectors, who amass ground as their own stalking preserve, not doing the job and not allowing anyone else to do so. The consequent result is that deer numbers , both Fallow and Roe, are rising massively (though I love seeing them, especially Roe), road kill is prevalent and when driving the lanes a wary eye is always needed. It's a situation here that is very rapidly running out of control, much to the detriment of forestry, farming and the beasts themselves.

It's very sad.

Edited May 10, 2022 by roboted
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