The financial case for electric vehicles

[Ruskins Trees]

Read that last year 11 companies made electric vehicles under £20k, this year 3

 

With the   higher purchase cost than diesel / petrol car and far far higher insurance / repair costs, electric cars will become for the rich only, completely destroying the plans of the government for mass use of electric vehicles        

[Baldbloke]

So in round numbers, £20k to run 10 year old cars and £30k to run brand new ones?

 

 

 

 

The cars are 6 and 10 years old.

 

This year my wife was offered almost the same money her 6 year old car that it had cost her two years ago but now with double the mileage on it. My older model cost half of hers as a second hand purchase and would be hard to find a year and a half later for the same money.

 

I realise it’s an odd situation where second hand cars are retaining values better than ever, but the cost of a lease at an additional £10,000 for Chinese cars with zero residuals, no 4WD, limited range and the hassle of chargers isn’t for me.

[Squaredy]

2 hours ago, Ruskins Trees said:

Read that last year 11 companies made electric vehicles under £20k, this year 3

 

With the   higher purchase cost than diesel / petrol car and far far higher insurance / repair costs, electric cars will become for the rich only, completely destroying the plans of the government for mass use of electric vehicles        

Agreed the purchase cost is much higher, but not sure where you get the idea that insurance and running costs are more.  My Kia EV is cheap to insure (in fact cheapest I have known for years) and it is generally accepted that electric vehicles have far fewer moving parts so maintenance is minimal.

 

 Granted the batteries will eventually fail, but only after a very long life.  

[adw]

I wonder how long before we have the” what are we going to do with all these duff used lithium batteries thread” dump them into space along with all the other crap floating about up there, or dump them in the sea with all the crap we have already dumped there, before long we will be knee deep in these batteries and no idea what to do with them, plus we are just waiting for a motorway pile up with a few EV vehicles and just sit back and wait for them to burn for a couple of days, to mention nothing of the weight of these things on our roads that are falling apart already, it will be a long time before I say goodbye to my VW Tiguan diesel.

[Haironyourchest]

1 hour ago, adw said:

I wonder how long before we have the” what are we going to do with all these duff used lithium batteries thread” dump them into space along with all the other crap floating about up there, or dump them in the sea with all the crap we have already dumped there, before long we will be knee deep in these batteries and no idea what to do with them, plus we are just waiting for a motorway pile up with a few EV vehicles and just sit back and wait for them to burn for a couple of days, to mention nothing of the weight of these things on our roads that are falling apart already, it will be a long time before I say goodbye to my VW Tiguan diesel.

Vehicular lithium ion cells are the ubiquitous 18650. They are retired when their capacity isn't good enough to run an EV anymore, but they still have plenty of charge cycles left for repurpose into domestic energy storage etc. I heard the actual cell is hard to recycle but then also heard there is a cost effective way to do it now.. 

[Woodworks]

 

[Squaredy]

3 hours ago, adw said:

I wonder how long before we have the” what are we going to do with all these duff used lithium batteries thread” dump them into space along with all the other crap floating about up there, or dump them in the sea with all the crap we have already dumped there, before long we will be knee deep in these batteries and no idea what to do with them, plus we are just waiting for a motorway pile up with a few EV vehicles and just sit back and wait for them to burn for a couple of days, to mention nothing of the weight of these things on our roads that are falling apart already, it will be a long time before I say goodbye to my VW Tiguan diesel.

The answer to all the used batteries is fairly simple - they need to be recycled and "mined" for the lithium which is needed to make more batteries.

 

I totally agree that electric vehicles are far from perfect, but hopefully it is a step in the right direction.  Car tyres are a huge problem that is not really even being talked about and of course is not addressed by electric propulsion..  I am talking about the plastic dust that is created by car tyres wearing out.  That dust certainly is not collected and safely disposed of.  What does not end up in the oceans stays in the land.  Hopefully some bacteria exist or will evolve to break this down, but at the moment it is a huge unknown.  And if you thought car tyres were made entirely of rubber (a natural material) try googling it.

 

I calculate the UK's car tyre dust comes to around 90,000 tons per year.

[Dan Maynard]

10 hours ago, Baldbloke said:

 

I realise it’s an odd situation where second hand cars are retaining values better than ever, but the cost of a lease at an additional £10,000 for Chinese cars with zero residuals, no 4WD, limited range and the hassle of chargers isn’t for me.

I don't think I'd take EV either at the moment, I'm a little bit similar in that I've a 7 year old diesel car and what it does is the longer journeys when I'm working away.

 

I guess I just meant that it's not that much of a jump to the EV though, so maybe less than it would be to drive a new diesel the same mileage.

[Baldbloke]

I wonder how long before we have the” what are we going to do with all these duff used lithium batteries thread” dump them into space along with all the other crap floating about up there, or dump them in the sea with all the crap we have already dumped there, before long we will be knee deep in these batteries and no idea what to do with them, plus we are just waiting for a motorway pile up with a few EV vehicles and just sit back and wait for them to burn for a couple of days, to mention nothing of the weight of these things on our roads that are falling apart already, it will be a long time before I say goodbye to my VW Tiguan diesel.

I agree, and would suggest that once electric vehicles become a performance and price viable purchase that the government will remove all subsidies and the increasing cost of electric will mean there’s little incentive to change unless you’re the type of person who needs everything renewed every three years, and they tax diesels out of the market.
We too rely on two soft roading diesel part time 4WD Tiguans through the year. 45mpg, quick enough, pull a couple of tonnes and reliable enough.

[Big J]

1 hour ago, Baldbloke said:

I agree, and would suggest that once electric vehicles become a performance and price viable purchase that the government will remove all subsidies and the increasing cost of electric will mean there’s little incentive to change unless you’re the type of person who needs everything renewed every three years, and they tax diesels out of the market.
We too rely on two soft roading diesel part time 4WD Tiguans through the year. 45mpg, quick enough, pull a couple of tonnes and reliable enough.

 

That's a very cynical viewpoint! 😁

 

The subsidies are already pretty meagre. There will of course have to be an alternative form of taxation to cover the lost revenue from the road fund licence and fuel duty, but it's not going to increase the cost per mile. 

 

The price of electricity should be coming down now as we transition to renewables, but stupid decisions by the Tories are hindering that. The effective halting of new onshore wind projects for the last 7 years, for example. 

 

The UK has massive renewable potential, and with electric vehicles the possibility of fuelling our cars in a zero emissions fashion.

 

Either way, after filling my VW Transporter yesterday in Sweden at £1.91/litre and it costing £154, I am looking forward to getting at least 1 EV!