Conversion to multi fuel

[openspaceman]

10 hours ago, Cath11 said:

Yes I remember those days too! Ice on the windows, getting dressed in front of the oven with the oven on and the door open as the only other heat in the house was the open fire.

So does the house temperature drop too far overnight? Back to your original post you want the fire to stay in overnight, I don't think that is worthwhile with wood for a number of reasons but in my case the chimney breast retains enough heat even when the fire goes out, to keep the house warm enough to get up and do chores as the stove is relit.

 

On the narrow boat it was very necessary to keep the fire in all the time and that was done with smokeless coal. As @neiln

 

says  the carbon in these smokeless coals can be from the coke left over from cracking petroleum nowadays. It is still a fossil fuel and puts the same amount of CO2 into the atmosphere as anthracite but so what?

 

I burn wood purely because it is cheaper for me to do so.

 

If you want to burn smokeless briquettes then fit the right grate or drill more holes in yours.

 

I could explain the reason why you need under grate air but it would wear my two fingers out more.

10 hours ago, Cath11 said:

 

 

 The front of my house is south facing so solar panels are on my radar too

It should be in full view now for a number of reasons if you have the ready cash for PV  but not for heat.

[Peasgood]

2 hours ago, Steven P said:

One I haven't done is switch to 30deg C laundry, I have a feeling in the back of my mind that the energy savings for that will be eaten up by more expensive detergent.

Try it, I think you will be surprised.

[Cath11]

12 hours ago, Steven P said:

Back of my mind says that some smokeless coal is an anthracite dusk and brown coal is made from house coal dust. I used to get PET coke (my coalman can't get that now) which is petroleum and has a feint smell of oil if you sniff it (it also eats through fire bricks but does burn quite hot). Might be the cheaper stuff is oil based, but looking at the ash I suspect it is mixed with a lot of sand too.

 

Cheaper living is kind of enforced with an open fire which says that don't run the heating when you are asleep and out the house - can't with a wood burner, it goes out. The theory is that heat loss isn't a linear thing, that 20 degrees above the outside temperature loses more than double the heat energy as a 10 degree difference would lose.

 

Ice on the windows? Yup, been there. Had my desk by the chimney breast in my room so I could keep my feet warm in the evenings too.

 

I agree with the above posts, insulate and insulate again, checking every ones favourite warehouse DIY shop just now the prices are about what they have been for the last few years, loft insulation is a simple job to top up just lay it on top and roll it out for 'wool' insulation (the common ones), go above the recommended minimum if you can (think it is 270mm now?). I think about about 360mm though the return on your outlay reduces, like the heat loss thicker and thicker insulation doesn't correspond to the same saving (so 200mm will save '1' lot of heat loss, 400mm will not save '2' heat losses, more like '1.5' heat losses). Better to spend the money somewhere else. Next simplest job I did was a pain in the butt, under the suspended floor, using the holes cut when the house was rewired I can access the whole under floor without lifting floorboards, got some of that orange barrier plastic you see on building sites, held up the insulation with one hand, the barrier with another hand, the torch with my spare hand and stapled it to the joists.. but it also worked... and pain but possible. (100mm, the depth of the joist, there just now, going to work out how to go to 200mm).

 

There are still offers out there to get insulation done and for free.

 

Final thought on energy saving, your biggest costs are anything that makes heat - so tumble drier is going off soon to use the line outside, kettle only has enough for what I need to use (Mrs Steven doesn't, boils a full 3 litres for a half cup), shower a minute quicker (it costs me about 4p a minute to shower at 30p a kWH and 9kw shower) (or more, internet reckons on 5 minute showers), baths... yeah they eat up the heat.. little changes. One I haven't done is switch to 30deg C laundry, I have a feeling in the back of my mind that the energy savings for that will be eaten up by more expensive detergent. Similarly lighting doesn't worry me - all LEDs now - for any savings made against the stress of running round the house chasing The Boys.

 

 

 

Me? Not a Yorkshire man (by nearly a mile), but just as tight at times.

British Gas came out and sorted out cavity wall insulation, new lagging for tank, looked in loft and said they couldn’t help with that. The whole of the floor in the loft is insulated and boarded. The eaves aren’t. A handy man/woman would no doubt be able to fix up some battons, insulate and board .. unfortunately I’m not that handy. Everywhere is double glazed . I switch off the shower now while lathering up. Kettle only boils one cup at a time. Switch everything off now when I go to bed and have decided against leaving a fire in overnight as apparently it knackers the flue liner. I have tried some smokeless on the fire and it burns well but I think it would burn better if I swapped out the grate for the proper multifuel one which has more air holes. If the smokeless fuel is cheaper than logs then that will be the way forward, my gas and electric will cost £170 more per month come October and I would imagine heating will account for at least half of that so technically could use £80 as a benchmark 

[Cath11]

19 hours ago, Peasgood said:

It puzzles me that there is so much outrage over suggesting you put a jumper on if it is cold in the house.

I don't actually own a jumper but that's besides the point.

My house has lots of insulation, I did all the external walls with battens and slabs then plasterboarded over. Roof space has double requirement and the house is nice and warm, has been all winter with no overnight heating on.

Been in for 12 months now and prior to that was 3 years in a static, plenty of winter nights with frost on the bedclothes but very rare to feel cold under the covers. A lot of people are just too soft these days.

I work from home and have had the heating on between 10° and 15° all day, some days were bitterly cold but I had several layers on and a hat. Next winter I won’t be able to afford to have the central heating on so I am planning to just run it for an hour a day to get some warmth into every room. I’m hoping running the burner and leaving the doors open will help.  Adding extra layers of insulation to homes is great, but it’s not so simple if you can’t do it yourself and have to pay someone to do it. Many people may be able to afford to buy the materials but then can’t afford to pay for the labour.

[neiln]

Feel for you Cath, really do.  There are going to be a lot of people in fuel poverty this winter and it's found to be grim if you're in that situation.

 

If you're liner is  316 stainless it won't like smokeless. It needs to be the higher grade, 902?

[openspaceman]

2 hours ago, neiln said:

Feel for you Cath, really do.  There are going to be a lot of people in fuel poverty this winter and it's found to be grim if you're in that situation.

 

If you're liner is  316 stainless it won't like smokeless. It needs to be the higher grade, 902?

904

[Alycidon]

23 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

904

The sulpherous fumes from smokeless fuel will condense in the top of the flue liner and deposit corrosive flue products onto it.  This will cause 316 grade flue liner to corrode and fail.   These new power sweep systems usually rip the corroded liner to shreds.     If using smokeless then must use 904 grade flue liner unless the use is very very occasional.

[Stubby]

9 hours ago, Cath11 said:

British Gas came out and sorted out cavity wall insulation, new lagging for tank, looked in loft and said they couldn’t help with that. The whole of the floor in the loft is insulated and boarded. The eaves aren’t. A handy man/woman would no doubt be able to fix up some battons, insulate and board .. unfortunately I’m not that handy. Everywhere is double glazed . I switch off the shower now while lathering up. Kettle only boils one cup at a time. Switch everything off now when I go to bed and have decided against leaving a fire in overnight as apparently it knackers the flue liner. I have tried some smokeless on the fire and it burns well but I think it would burn better if I swapped out the grate for the proper multifuel one which has more air holes. If the smokeless fuel is cheaper than logs then that will be the way forward, my gas and electric will cost £170 more per month come October and I would imagine heating will account for at least half of that so technically could use £80 as a benchmark 

Don't the eaves have to breath ? I do think you can go over board with shutting everything off to atmosphere resulting in condensation .

[nepia]

2 hours ago, Stubby said:

Don't the eaves have to breath ? I do think you can go over board with shutting everything off to atmosphere resulting in condensation .

A doubt of mine also.  We moved into this house a year ago.  It's 100 years old and timber framed.  The floors of the under eave storage spaces all have insulation but you can see daylight under the edges of the roof.  Isn't that the way it should be for such a house?

The need to insulate is great of course but sometimes the need to ventilate is also great - I think.

 

[Doug Tait]

I'm under the impression that ideally the aim is either "hot roof" or "cold roof".

 

If the whole space is filled with insulation, with the the aim of displacing as much airspace as possible it's hot, but if there's any significant airspace left it's cold and needs to be ventilated.

 

As has been said any trapped air will contain moisture.