Sharpening, Oregon 410 - Getting to Proper Guide Depth?

[FlyFishn]

I'm noticing my chains don't cut uniformly. The last 2 were sharp, but they didn't seem to have quite the bite. My assumption is the guides aren't at the right depth. My usual method is to dial in the cutters uniformly across the chain, then take a bit off the guides. How I knock the guides down is with a wide flat ground wheel on the machine - I can use the depth stop the same as the cutters - so every guide comes out the same.

 

At the moment I don't have a good way to measure the guides with respect to the cutters - and I presume that is my problem.

 

I'd prefer to do everything on the machine since I can index the chain and set up the stops.

 

Question - is there a method that any of you have to dial in the guide depth?

 

I have a micrometer (.0001" precision) and digital calipers (.0005" precision) - but I can't get them in place to grind and measure set up on the machine. If I could - I could set a plate across the 2 adjacent cutters with an opening over the middle then drop down from the plate as a reference to the guide, subtract the plate and have my measurement.

 

Maybe a screw gauge is on order? IE - make a plate that will straddle 3 cutters with a screw peg to set at the proper guide depth like a micrometer, set to proper depth, then grind to eliminate the rocking of the plate on the peg? That actually sounds like a neat method as long as the peg could be locked in place. Or make a couple gauges with fixed peg dimensions so there's no knocking out of adjustment or adjusting for new settings, just swap gauges for proper depth per what ever the chain needs.

 

 

[Stubby]

27 minutes ago, FlyFishn said:

I'm noticing my chains don't cut uniformly. The last 2 were sharp, but they didn't seem to have quite the bite. My assumption is the guides aren't at the right depth. My usual method is to dial in the cutters uniformly across the chain, then take a bit off the guides. How I knock the guides down is with a wide flat ground wheel on the machine - I can use the depth stop the same as the cutters - so every guide comes out the same.

 

At the moment I don't have a good way to measure the guides with respect to the cutters - and I presume that is my problem.

 

I'd prefer to do everything on the machine since I can index the chain and set up the stops.

 

Question - is there a method that any of you have to dial in the guide depth?

 

I have a micrometer (.0001" precision) and digital calipers (.0005" precision) - but I can't get them in place to grind and measure set up on the machine. If I could - I could set a plate across the 2 adjacent cutters with an opening over the middle then drop down from the plate as a reference to the guide, subtract the plate and have my measurement.

 

Maybe a screw gauge is on order? IE - make a plate that will straddle 3 cutters with a screw peg to set at the proper guide depth like a micrometer, set to proper depth, then grind to eliminate the rocking of the plate on the peg? That actually sounds like a neat method as long as the peg could be locked in place. Or make a couple gauges with fixed peg dimensions so there's no knocking out of adjustment or adjusting for new settings, just swap gauges for proper depth per what ever the chain needs.

 

 

A cheap pressed steel guide to check / adjust the depth gauges/rakers .  Couple of quid .

[FlyFishn]

1 hour ago, Stubby said:

A cheap pressed steel guide to check / adjust the depth gauges/rakers .  Couple of quid .

Like this?

 

Oregon 0.025 in. Drop-Center Depth Gauge Tool and Flat File for Saw Chain | Oregon Products

WWW.OREGONPRODUCTS.COM

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This tool makes it easy for you to set the depth gauge on your chainsaw chain. Includes a .025 inch drop-center depth...

 

That is a guide for filing - it stops a file at the proper setting. It doesn't give you an indication of how far to set a grinding wheel on a machine.

[Mick Dempsey]

Just buy the little guide Stubby posted, piece of piss to use.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Mick Dempsey

[htb]

27 minutes ago, FlyFishn said:

Like this?

 

Oregon 0.025 in. Drop-Center Depth Gauge Tool and Flat File for Saw Chain | Oregon Products

WWW.OREGONPRODUCTS.COM

---

This tool makes it easy for you to set the depth gauge on your chainsaw chain. Includes a .025 inch drop-center depth...

 

That is a guide for filing - it stops a file at the proper setting. It doesn't give you an indication of how far to set a grinding wheel on a machine.

Keep it simple, don't over complicate it

[Canal Navvy]

You say "not cutting uniformly" , on your machine do you have to do every other depth gauge and then turn the chain the same as sharpening the cutters ? . 

 

Not that hard really to hand file a single depth gauge down just far enough measured with the filing gauge and then set the grinding wheel to just kiss the surface 😉 

[Khriss]

1 hour ago, Stubby said:

A cheap pressed steel guide to check / adjust the depth gauges/rakers .  Couple of quid .

Yea, he going a bit ' indepth' for this task 😉 K

[FlyFishn]

7 minutes ago, Canal Navvy said:

You say "not cutting uniformly" , on your machine do you have to do every other depth gauge and then turn the chain the same as sharpening the cutters ? . 

Thats the best part of machine sharpening - everything on the chain is the same when you're done.

 

My concern isn't uneven'ness of the cutters - the cutters aren't chewing enough wood = less aggressive cutting. It works fine, but I felt the last 2 chains were too slow-cutting.

 

On my dads saw (not here, .325" pitch) I ran the guides down then test cut and ran the guides down some more then test cut until I got it where it was right. On a one-off that is one thing, but going through 3-4 chains in a row I'd rather throw a gauge of some kind across a guide to dial the one in, then run the whole chain, then set up on the next chain (dialing in a new stop position).

 

I will see what I can come up with. I'm thinking a plate with a weld bead as the depth peg would work for as small of a difference in height we're talking - .025"-.050" or so. Plus I can tweak the measurement to fit different chains/applications (full chains less aggressive than skips for example).

[gary112]

21 minutes ago, FlyFishn said:

Thats the best part of machine sharpening - everything on the chain is the same when you're done.

 

My concern isn't uneven'ness of the cutters - the cutters aren't chewing enough wood = less aggressive cutting. It works fine, but I felt the last 2 chains were too slow-cutting.

 

On my dads saw (not here, .325" pitch) I ran the guides down then test cut and ran the guides down some more then test cut until I got it where it was right. On a one-off that is one thing, but going through 3-4 chains in a row I'd rather throw a gauge of some kind across a guide to dial the one in, then run the whole chain, then set up on the next chain (dialing in a new stop position).

 

I will see what I can come up with. I'm thinking a plate with a weld bead as the depth peg would work for as small of a difference in height we're talking - .025"-.050" or so. Plus I can tweak the measurement to fit different chains/applications (full chains less aggressive than skips for example).

You mention they work fine but were too slow cutting,from your other post about bar lengths on your saw i would say your slow cutting is most likely caused by running too long of a bar on your small saw!

[FlyFishn]

49 minutes ago, gary112 said:

from your other post about bar lengths on your saw i would say your slow cutting is most likely caused by running too long of a bar on your small saw!

I've run the set up since 2013-ish. It's not the long bar. For several years I had the place I worked at the time sharpen my chains. Down the road I got my own machine to sharpen. The saw has cut fine with the same skip chains on the same bar.

 

I'll come up with a method to dial in the guides and go with it. Unfortunately, I don't have any wood right here to test cut on so I'll figure up a starting point on the depth based on what I can find, make a guide to that, and go with it, then when I get to cutting next I can tweak from there. Its easy to go down on the guide to make it more aggressive, not so much going back the other way without wasting cutter life.

 

Of the 2 chains I ran recently the previous one cut better. I suppose I can get it in the vice and put a feeler gauge on one of the guides to see what it measures at as a starting point, then maybe go another .005-.010". That might be the best route to start with. I don't know if an extra .005-.010" would be that noticeable, but if going an additional .025" is too much then at .005-.010" more I am not left with a chain I can't use in the field.