Dropped kerb planning rejected due to RPA

[topchippyles]

12 minutes ago, Gajendra said:

Thanks Julian, what does this mean for me? Are you suggesting that council could still tell me what is done is done and I still have no chance? If that is the case I might as well get someone to install the dropped kerb and tell council to go after Virgin first then come to me haha

Utility companies have their own set of rules to go by. 

[JaySmith]

Obviously we haven’t seen the pictures of the cable companies excavations for context but usually these would be smaller channels of work by comparison to a full drop curb installation - depending on the site layout, work carried out and how over zealous the operatives got!

As others have said the cable companies have powers to maintain their network but should be adhering to the NJUG guidelines. The emphasis on should.

I have a case very similar to yours, the original application was declined by a colleague due to the RPA but the client is now engaging with a planning consultant to work with an arb consultant to put forward a solution for consideration. They will submit this to the council and we can consider the application, councils can be flexible and think outside the box. In your situation you will have a procedure to follow and potentially put forward a suitable solution for consideration. I’m still unsure how it would work in practice as systems such as Geocell aren’t suitable.

[Stubby]

On 12/01/2022 at 14:08, Gajendra said:

Update: Yesterday, Virgin media came to install new cable for us and guess what they started digging the pavement!! I asked them how come they were allowed to dig and they said they have permission to dig from the council. They dug about 1.5ft deep, surely I don't have to dig that deep to install dropped kerb. I have sent a new email to council with all the pictures let's see what they have to say about this.

 

Missed a trick there . Should have asked the cable guys for a cash price to drop the curb .

[Gajendra]

2 hours ago, Stubby said:

Missed a trick there . Should have asked the cable guys for a cash price to drop the curb .

I did offered him the job but he said he's not getting involved 😂

[AntelopeStar]

Hi Gajendra, 

Sorry in advance if this post is now closed. Just read the post and wondered how you got on with your appeal?

I’ve been in a similar situation (different LA in the South East), although some differences:

1) Bought house where garage already built (planning permission granted and built in 1996), however previous owners neither applied for or installed a dropped kerb, just trundled their car over the pavement for the 40 years they owned the house, AND parked a second car on the non-dropped kerb resulting in, surprise surprise, a destroyed and unsightly kerb;

2) A single small tree forlornly exists <0.5M from the entrance of the existing garage, looks very sorry for itself after years of parking abuse near it/never flourishes, and initial enquiry to the council (prior to purchase completion), LA advised a dropped kerb would not be permitted as installing would be within the RPA of the tree (approx 1M - trunk diameter very small).

I proffered that the damage to the poor tree had already been done, and requested if there might be alternative solutions, but nil response.

3) However, on speaking to the previous owner’s son prior to house purchase (it was his parents who were blatantly (and unchecked by either council or police enforcement for decades) driving over and parking on the pavement for decades) advised that the tree had been planted there by the LA about 10 years AFTER the garage had been built.

So I took a punt and went ahead with the house purchase, on basis if an appeal failed I could relocate the garage to be outside the RPA (bloody expensive!), or flatten what is currently a fairly shoddy garage anyway, so that a dropped kerb would be outside of the RPA, and just install a hardstanding (still not cheap but an option nevertheless).

No comment about LA here, other than it has taken 6 mths of emails to get to a conclusion.

Have just had an approval through from the LA Highways section, and having checked all of the approval paperwork, and after all of the objections raised by the LA TO, there is absolutely no conditions stated relating to the tree and dropped kerb distance from RPA at all.  I will ask the contractor I intend to use to check this to make sure I haven’t missed something, but at the moment I’m assuming an oversight in the LA’s part. The dilemma for me is though, it’s the difference between several thousands £ to either flatten garage and build hardstanding, or, flatten and relocate the garage to avoid the RPA of a tree that has already had c.15 years of parking abuse, or to leave the garage where it is, and put the dropped kerb in close to the tree as no conditions regarding that in the approval.

Hmm.

 

Anyway, sorry for the ramble/thought might be useful to share for the forum, and hope you have found a solution for your parking needs whilst still conserving the existing trees (far more substantial and mature than the poor twig outside of my house)

[Gajendra]

On 01/10/2022 at 20:43, AntelopeStar said:

Hi Gajendra, 

Sorry in advance if this post is now closed. Just read the post and wondered how you got on with your appeal?

I’ve been in a similar situation (different LA in the South East), although some differences:

1) Bought house where garage already built (planning permission granted and built in 1996), however previous owners neither applied for or installed a dropped kerb, just trundled their car over the pavement for the 40 years they owned the house, AND parked a second car on the non-dropped kerb resulting in, surprise surprise, a destroyed and unsightly kerb;

2) A single small tree forlornly exists <0.5M from the entrance of the existing garage, looks very sorry for itself after years of parking abuse near it/never flourishes, and initial enquiry to the council (prior to purchase completion), LA advised a dropped kerb would not be permitted as installing would be within the RPA of the tree (approx 1M - trunk diameter very small).

I proffered that the damage to the poor tree had already been done, and requested if there might be alternative solutions, but nil response.

3) However, on speaking to the previous owner’s son prior to house purchase (it was his parents who were blatantly (and unchecked by either council or police enforcement for decades) driving over and parking on the pavement for decades) advised that the tree had been planted there by the LA about 10 years AFTER the garage had been built.

So I took a punt and went ahead with the house purchase, on basis if an appeal failed I could relocate the garage to be outside the RPA (bloody expensive!), or flatten what is currently a fairly shoddy garage anyway, so that a dropped kerb would be outside of the RPA, and just install a hardstanding (still not cheap but an option nevertheless).

No comment about LA here, other than it has taken 6 mths of emails to get to a conclusion.

Have just had an approval through from the LA Highways section, and having checked all of the approval paperwork, and after all of the objections raised by the LA TO, there is absolutely no conditions stated relating to the tree and dropped kerb distance from RPA at all.  I will ask the contractor I intend to use to check this to make sure I haven’t missed something, but at the moment I’m assuming an oversight in the LA’s part. The dilemma for me is though, it’s the difference between several thousands £ to either flatten garage and build hardstanding, or, flatten and relocate the garage to avoid the RPA of a tree that has already had c.15 years of parking abuse, or to leave the garage where it is, and put the dropped kerb in close to the tree as no conditions regarding that in the approval.

Hmm.

 

Anyway, sorry for the ramble/thought might be useful to share for the forum, and hope you have found a solution for your parking needs whilst still conserving the existing trees (far more substantial and mature than the poor twig outside of my house)

Thank you for sharing your experience. I have been going round from person to person still no joy. I just had a reply from department of environmental bla bla bla to say they will allow me to hand dig (trial hole) and if there are no roots available then I would be allowed to install a dropped kerb. This option is not cheap considering I will still have to pay for new driveway and dropped kerb. On the email they have also mentioned that the success rate of going down this route is very slim. I don't know if anyone has any experience of this procedure? Thanks  

[Gajendra]

Evening all, it has been a while since I have posted any update here. I have been going round in circle. I have complained to anyone and everyone that I can think of. Finally I have received a reply from department of environmental bla bla bla to say they will allow me to hand dig (trial hole) and if there are no roots available then I would be allowed to install a dropped kerb. This option is not cheap but it is still an option I guess. On the email they have also mentioned that the success rate of going down this route is very slim. I don't know if anyone here are the tree specialist who has experience of this procedure? Thanks

ps. I have attached my plan that might help 

[monkeybusiness]

1 hour ago, Gajendra said:

Evening all, it has been a while since I have posted any update here. I have been going round in circle. I have complained to anyone and everyone that I can think of. Finally I have received a reply from department of environmental bla bla bla to say they will allow me to hand dig (trial hole) and if there are no roots available then I would be allowed to install a dropped kerb. This option is not cheap but it is still an option I guess. On the email they have also mentioned that the success rate of going down this route is very slim. I don't know if anyone here are the tree specialist who has experience of this procedure? Thanks

ps. I have attached my plan that might help 

If you want a dropped kerb then it is time to get the spade out…

[john87]

2 hours ago, Gajendra said:

Evening all, it has been a while since I have posted any update here. I have been going round in circle. I have complained to anyone and everyone that I can think of. Finally I have received a reply from department of environmental bla bla bla to say they will allow me to hand dig (trial hole) and if there are no roots available then I would be allowed to install a dropped kerb. This option is not cheap but it is still an option I guess. On the email they have also mentioned that the success rate of going down this route is very slim. I don't know if anyone here are the tree specialist who has experience of this procedure? Thanks

ps. I have attached my plan that might help 

To be honest, they are right royally taking the piss just showing off their power [and complete ignorance] If you installed a dropped kerb, WTF has that got to do with tree roots?????

 

Try looking at a kerbing catalogue, the right hand and left hand ones taper down, and the centre ones are half the height...

So, you could break out the haunching from what is already there, and bed your new kerbs back on the existing bedding, no need to go any deeper or anything. I suggest you send off for a catalogue and then go tell the twats they are full of shit and do not know what they are on about..

 

Here is a link to a suitable catalogue for you... http://www.rpcltd.co.uk/concrete-solutions/downloads/products/bs-kerb-data-sheet.pdf

 

john..

[Steve Bullman]

6 hours ago, john87 said:

[and complete ignorance] If you installed a dropped kerb, WTF has that got to do with tree roots?????

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