Dropped kerb planning rejected due to RPA

[AHPP]

No need. Widely acknowledged.

[Gajendra]

15 hours ago, tree77 said:

Looking at the photo can see why it was refused, based on what we approve/refused within the authority i work with. 

 

Appreciate other houses have crossing close to trees but what would help your case if you have any recent examples to could use

 

 

Unfortunately for me it seems every house on that street installed their dropped kerb well before the legislation got changed.

 

12 hours ago, john87 said:

Can i just say, a local authority CANNOT just set "policies" and decide that is that. They have to decide each case on its merits, Blanket policies are unlawful.. It is called "fettering their discretion" Letter to the council monitoring officer, and if no luck, ombudsman. Not saying the ombudsman casn change the verdict, but what they CAN do, is to make sure your case was considered in the proper manner and not just a blanket "no"

 

john..

Thank you John, I have requested council to send arborist to carry out survey but I think they said there is 6 weeks waiting list just to get an appoint to speak to him. 

 

4 hours ago, Anno said:

Depends on if its Policy or Strategy - it makes a lot of difference, the latter is a long process, usually involving legal process and consultation, in my experience officers usually are overworked and underfunded but do need to give consideration on a one to one basis and try to get a positive outcome for all parties.

*stands well back and waits for the Council/tree officers are just scum posts*

Thanks Anno, I think like John mentioned above it was just blanket approach and no consideration was given. I will have to appeal their decisions but I am not sure what to write on my appeal. I don't think I can just say I don't agree with their policy haha.  

[Arboraeration]

As others have said if you are determined to see this through then its going to be down to you to put in the leg work to prove to the council that installing the drop kerb is not going to cause damage to the trees. I would say that it is extremely unlikely that they will change their decision, just because having a drop kerb will make you life easier. 

 

I think your first step is to employ a professional arboricultural consultant to continue the application on your behalf. Yes this costs money but they are dealing with these sort of applications on a daily basis.

 

The second thing that you/the consultant will need to do is to find a way to prove that by installing a drop kerb there will be no/minimal damage to the trees. To do this they will need to understand where the trees are rooting and the only way to do this is to have a look. Either physical excavation with an airspade or using a ground penetrating radar system. In this situation the airspade is going to be expensive and cause a mountain of paperwork because you need permits to excavate the pavement/road that is owned by the council, it then has to be reinstated by one of their contractors while your application is being processed. A ground penetrating radar or Tree Radar Survey will still not be cheap, however it can be completed without permits or even permission from the council as there is no damage to the roadway.

 

There is still a chance that after all of the above the trees are mostly rooting within that area you want to excavate, and permission is still not granted. However you will at least know for certain rather than guessing. 

[Gajendra]

9 minutes ago, Arboraeration said:

As others have said if you are determined to see this through then its going to be down to you to put in the leg work to prove to the council that installing the drop kerb is not going to cause damage to the trees. I would say that it is extremely unlikely that they will change their decision, just because having a drop kerb will make you life easier. 

 

I think your first step is to employ a professional arboricultural consultant to continue the application on your behalf. Yes this costs money but they are dealing with these sort of applications on a daily basis.

 

The second thing that you/the consultant will need to do is to find a way to prove that by installing a drop kerb there will be no/minimal damage to the trees. To do this they will need to understand where the trees are rooting and the only way to do this is to have a look. Either physical excavation with an airspade or using a ground penetrating radar system. In this situation the airspade is going to be expensive and cause a mountain of paperwork because you need permits to excavate the pavement/road that is owned by the council, it then has to be reinstated by one of their contractors while your application is being processed. A ground penetrating radar or Tree Radar Survey will still not be cheap, however it can be completed without permits or even permission from the council as there is no damage to the roadway.

 

There is still a chance that after all of the above the trees are mostly rooting within that area you want to excavate, and permission is still not granted. However you will at least know for certain rather than guessing. 

Thank you so much. Any idea what sort of cost we are looking at for this fancy procedures that you have mentioned above? Thanks

[Canal Navvy]

Don't know how recent your streetview image is, in my area the fibre optic contractors have been through since then and roadside trees have no roots above 400 mm 🤔 

[tree77]

Have they given you the size/measurements specifications for the crossing.

 

If you know the size/extent of the new crossing you will know how close to the trees it will be.

[daltontrees]

Oh boy, this has been a classic Arbtalk 'the Council are all bastards/idiots' rant so far, but it's slightly missing an obvious point. The Council owns the road, the footway and the trees and doesn't want them wrecked by chancers and amateurs. So it uses industry best practice (BS5837 and NJUG) to prevent damage unless the applicant is willing to pay to prove that there aren't roots to be damaged. Seems fair enough. No different from a planning application being refused because of tree damage. Same standards, same principles. And Councils will accept that trees won't be damaged if an exploratory excavation establishes that there aren't roots present. If they are present, go over them if levels allow. Unfortunately drop kerbs only ever require reduction of levels.

 

Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Mick Dempsey]

Isn’t there a thing whereby they are trying to stop people turning their front gardens into drives everywhere?

Cos it ruins the look of neighborhoods and causes more flooding cos of hard standing.

You have to admit that the front of the house with a nice garden looks a lot better than two parked cars up to the front door.

 

Maybe the council are trying to draw a line under this sort of thing.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Mick Dempsey

[richyrich]

I thought any new access needed to go through planning?? In which case 'lines of sight' may be more of an issue than affecting tree roots. 

Contact the council again for confirmation.

If necessary put your application in. Wait months- find out all reasons for refusal/approval. Get expert in and appeal.. Might take a while...

[Gajendra]

4 hours ago, daltontrees said:

Oh boy, this has been a classic Arbtalk 'the Council are all bastards/idiots' rant so far, but it's slightly missing an obvious point. The Council owns the road, the footway and the trees and doesn't want them wrecked by chancers and amateurs. So it uses industry best practice (BS5837 and NJUG) to prevent damage unless the applicant is willing to pay to prove that there aren't roots to be damaged. Seems fair enough. No different from a planning application being refused because of tree damage. Same standards, same principles. And Councils will accept that trees won't be damaged if an exploratory excavation establishes that there aren't roots present. If they are present, go over them if levels allow. Unfortunately drop kerbs only ever require reduction of levels.

 

Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

Thanks Juels. I am willing to pay a reasonable amount to carry out the survey to see if there are any roots where I want to build a dropped kerb. But the email I received was sent from council highway department to say my plan has been rejected and email their complaint team if I am not happy. It is crazy who on this planet will be happy with their plan being rejected haha. They have not said anything on what are my options. 

 

3 hours ago, Mick Dempsey said:

Isn’t there a thing whereby they are trying to stop people turning their front gardens into drives everywhere?

Cos it ruins the look of neighborhoods and causes more flooding cos of hard standing.

You have to admit that the front of the house with a nice garden looks a lot better than two parked cars up to the front door.

 

Maybe the council are trying to draw a line under this sort of thing.

Apparently there is a new legislation where you have to build a soakaway in your drive plus you have to build your drive before council builds the dropped kerb. On this street there are 91 houses and 89 of them have dropped kerb which is why I am a little annoyed.