Future Firewood Demand Optimism?

[Billhook]

In 1984, there was enough food produced in Britain to feed the nation for 306 days of the year. Today, that figure is 233 days, making 21 August 2020 the day that the country would run out of food if we were relying solely on British produce. But what does this actually mean and could we be producing more?

[Woodworks]

1 hour ago, Billhook said:

In 1984, there was enough food produced in Britain to feed the nation for 306 days of the year. Today, that figure is 233 days, making 21 August 2020 the day that the country would run out of food if we were relying solely on British produce. But what does this actually mean and could we be producing more?

Hope it's fair to say that the way we farmed back in 1984 was not sustainable and relied on mass use of fertilisers was intensive and has denuded our soils. At some point we have to make farming sustainable and that will probably be even less productive! No good answers as far as I can see. Too many people on a small island which is made worse by our current efforts to alienate our neighbours.

[Billhook]

8 minutes ago, Woodworks said:

Hope it's fair to say that the way we farmed back in 1984 was not sustainable and relied on mass use of fertilisers was intensive and has denuded our soils. At some point we have to make farming sustainable and that will probably be even less productive! No good answers as far as I can see. Too many people on a small island which is made worse by our current efforts to alienate our neighbours.

No not really fair.  There were some farmers making headlines by tearing up hedges and trees and making huge fields with continuous cereals but here in Lincolnshire with better soils we had good rotations with potatoes and sugar beet and oilseeds as healthy break crops and this farm and many around here have seen sustainably  high yields and much more informed and intelligent use of chemicals and fertilisers which had to be reduced by regulation and sheer costs.

Our soils have not been denuded and we have not changed fertiliser and chemical use much in the last forty years, The yields seem to improve gradually which has a lot to do with improved plant breeding 

We are proud to have kept our woods and hedges with little loss of profit

i have been at the sharp end of chemicals for many decades, my father more so and I have never heard of anyone being made ill around here by their use

People all the time give us grief about chemicals but think nothing of taking headache pills, sleeping pills, vitamin supplements and any pill recommended by a doctor  which are all chemicals and undiluted as well.

 

We could easily feed you all but several things need to change

Firstly there is so much waste caused by supermarket obsession with the visual impact of a few blemishes 

Then there is the size grading 

Then there are the sell by dates

All of these causing perfectly healthy food to be chucked out

Then there is the fact that food is too cheap and people will just cut the breast off a chicken for instance or not eat liver and kidney 

Then there is the obesity epidemic and the fact that people eat too much

Then there is the trend for importing exotic foods at great cost to the environment 

Then there is the current trend for rewilding and greening taking land out of production as well as land sold for planning

[openspaceman]

3 hours ago, Billhook said:

It will always be the case that if people are hungry, they will not give a damn about the birds, the bees and the herbicides as long as they have their food, and if they are cold they will not give a damn about the birds, the.bees, the trees or Climate Change as long as they have their fuel.

Yes and given that most of the world's population can never reach our standard of living I don't have much hope for COP26 either.

 

Trouble is the problems are coming home to roost a bit earlier than I expected. This current energy crisis is a case in point, We need nitrogen for crops, it's equivalent to having more acres, traditionally it came from hydropower and more recently made from natural gas, often from stranded resources which would have been flared. Now it's worth liquefying and shipping it so no need to make ammonium nitrate with it. Then given a stranglehold on the west's supply of gas from the east...

[Billhook]

6 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

Yes and given that most of the world's population can never reach our standard of living I don't have much hope for COP26 either.

 

Trouble is the problems are coming home to roost a bit earlier than I expected. This current energy crisis is a case in point, We need nitrogen for crops, it's equivalent to having more acres, traditionally it came from hydropower and more recently made from natural gas, often from stranded resources which would have been flared. Now it's worth liquefying and shipping it so no need to make ammonium nitrate with it. Then given a stranglehold on the west's supply of gas from the east...

I suppose if people were hungry due to lack of nitrogen we could always increase beans and peas for the nitrogen and not inefficiently process the beans through cattle

Then there are the oceans to harvest seaweed kelp etc but best not go there as we have managed to fcuk them up enough already

[openspaceman]

15 minutes ago, Billhook said:

I suppose if people were hungry due to lack of nitrogen we could always increase beans and peas for the nitrogen and not inefficiently process the beans through cattle

Then there are the oceans to harvest seaweed kelp etc but best not go there as we have managed to fcuk them up enough already

I'm not sure why we don't produce more beans and pulses apart from harvesting them immature for freezing.

 

Of course we dump a vast amount of nitrogenous liquid into the rivers and sea each day.

[difflock]

12 hours ago, Billhook said:

No not really fair.  There were some farmers making headlines by tearing up hedges and trees and making huge fields with continuous cereals but here in Lincolnshire with better soils we had good rotations with potatoes and sugar beet and oilseeds as healthy break crops and this farm and many around here have seen sustainably  high yields and much more informed and intelligent use of chemicals and fertilisers which had to be reduced by regulation and sheer costs.

Our soils have not been denuded and we have not changed fertiliser and chemical use much in the last forty years, The yields seem to improve gradually which has a lot to do with improved plant breeding 

We are proud to have kept our woods and hedges with little loss of profit

i have been at the sharp end of chemicals for many decades, my father more so and I have never heard of anyone being made ill around here by their use

People all the time give us grief about chemicals but think nothing of taking headache pills, sleeping pills, vitamin supplements and any pill recommended by a doctor  which are all chemicals and undiluted as well.

 

We could easily feed you all but several things need to change

Firstly there is so much waste caused by supermarket obsession with the visual impact of a few blemishes 

Then there is the size grading 

Then there are the sell by dates

All of these causing perfectly healthy food to be chucked out

Then there is the fact that food is too cheap and people will just cut the breast off a chicken for instance or not eat liver and kidney 

Then there is the obesity epidemic and the fact that people eat too much

Then there is the trend for importing exotic foods at great cost to the environment 

Then there is the current trend for rewilding and greening taking land out of production as well as land sold for planning

Thank BH, perfectly summed up.

[muldonach]

On 16/10/2021 at 16:24, Billhook said:

In 1984, there was enough food produced in Britain to feed the nation for 306 days of the year. Today, that figure is 233 days, making 21 August 2020 the day that the country would run out of food if we were relying solely on British produce. But what does this actually mean and could we be producing more?

Of course we can produce much more - all it needs is someone to pay the producer

[Vedhoggar]

On 10/09/2021 at 07:53, trigger_andy said:

I see round my way there is people selling un-seasoned Spruce for £100 a 90x90 dumpy bag. (think he's a member here) Will be interesting to see how that goes. If this continues then I'll seriously get into selling firewood. Id rip Spruce Saw Logs into firewood for those prices. 

£100/0.729 m3 loose/bulk (90 x 90 x 90cm dumpy) would be something like £343/solid m3 ... get ripping up those saw logs into firewood!

[trigger_andy]

£100/0.729 m3 loose/bulk (90 x 90 x 90cm dumpy) would be something like £343/solid m3 ... get ripping up those saw logs into firewood!

I might just cut my 6” Beams out the hearts and have nice abs chunky slab wood that I’ll cut and bag up at the end. Will see if I can shift them. If not I’ll just bring them home for my own Stoves.