Red diesel availability?

[spuddog0507]

1 hour ago, dan blocker said:

Just make sure it’s not your court case🤔, cost my mate in excess of £14,000 when pulled with red in his unimog  for fencing contracting. And he won his case. Still cost him £14,000😳

Yes i lad i know using a unimog for arb work and running on red is on with a on going court case and its been going on now over 3 yrs, as he said it all started with some one running in the back of the Mog when it was parked roadside at a job and we where having our dinner round the back of the house we where working at, the women driving the car called the Police as she said the mog was reversing ? CCTV footage from a set of nearby traffic lights confirmed no one in Mog and had not been for 20mins, every thing snow balled from there, Greater manchester police, DVLA, Custom & excise etc so far its cost him about 30k and it aint finished yet,

[aspenarb]

I cant see this affecting any business, they will now be claiming back the 20% vat instead of the 5%  and its all tax deductible anyway. The problem facing customs now will be that all white diesel will be bought in bulk and put down to business use and everything they think they have gained will be lost in clawed back expenses , supporting an army of pen pushing chair polishers and to the police dealing with what will be a monumental increase in undetectable business fuel theft/misuse. Most boat owners run a business, I am sure they wont be putting the white diesel they now have to use  through the books 😂

 

Bob

[doobin]

10 hours ago, spuddog0507 said:

Yes i lad i know using a unimog for arb work and running on red is on with a on going court case and its been going on now over 3 yrs, as he said it all started with some one running in the back of the Mog when it was parked roadside at a job and we where having our dinner round the back of the house we where working at, the women driving the car called the Police as she said the mog was reversing ? CCTV footage from a set of nearby traffic lights confirmed no one in Mog and had not been for 20mins, every thing snow balled from there, Greater manchester police, DVLA, Custom & excise etc so far its cost him about 30k and it aint finished yet,

When are we finally going to have a test case and a line in the sand? People round here rip the piss with fasttracs hauling thirteen tonners. 

[LGP Eddie]

I’m pretty certain it’ll impact many businesses running kit, both from theft/damage, cashflow and straightforward unfair competition from those running bent.

 

Many will have seen the increase in projects now coming under CIS and Reverse Vat, as they’re Construction despite you actually dealing with trees and wishing to be classed as Forestry/Arb.

They’re really tightening up on this now as the main contractors come under ever increasing pressure.

Get yourself involved in this triple whammy and not only will you get dented cashflow, try running Red on such projects and you’ve just hung yourself if caught.

 

Those who do a portion of Construction bits and pieces are really going to feel it from the Farmers running tractors, low loaders, dump trailers and machines on Red and undercutting them even more than they do now.

 

It’s going to be a real mess, the temptation of any Operator to fill a couple of cans for the wife/mates car, pressure from idiots on site with the “fill me a couple of cans or I’ll not be able to get to work” despite spending £20 a day in the shop on pop and crisps!🤦‍♂️

 

 

Eddie.

 

 

[LGP Eddie]

1 hour ago, doobin said:

When are we finally going to have a test case and a line in the sand? People round here rip the piss with fasttracs hauling thirteen tonners. 

Never, so if you can’t beat them join them?

 

Same opportunity is there for all, I could buy a Fastrac, low loader, 14 tonner with a Shear and Grapple Saw, no guarding, full Harvester speed Saw, no paperwork and be flat out busy in the local area running on Red as Forestry.

 

I choose not to, (at present) but a seemingly ever increasing number seem to go this route and it’s very tempting.

However can you blame them, nobody’s policing it, every opportunity to do something about it comes with a ‘Agricultural and Forestry’ exemption just to muddy the waters, and if the clients doesn’t care, why should they?

 

I’ve had Tractors and Low loaders, they’re good earners, and the ability to move kit exactly when you want can make a huge difference.

 

Quite simply only one way to end it and that’s movement orders for Tractors moving any kind of plant or hauling material that is not produce.

They would have to state where to/from with holding numbers etc etc.

 

Simple online format, register where you’re moving to/from etc and pay your small fee.

The genuine guys would still be getting away as good as free in comparison to hiring haulage, but get caught off route in the middle of a housing estate with your dump trailer and you’re for it.

Wouldn’t be rocket science to introduce, would be self funding and simple enough to get your movement orders in place if you planned your work.

 

 

Eddie.

Edited December 4, 2021 by LGP Eddie

[woody paul]

2 hours ago, LGP Eddie said:

Never, so if you can’t beat them join them?

 

Same opportunity is there for all, I could buy a Fastrac, low loader, 14 tonner with a Shear and Grapple Saw, no guarding, full Harvester speed Saw, no paperwork and be flat out busy in the local area running on Red as Forestry.

 

I choose not to, (at present) but a seemingly ever increasing number seem to go this route and it’s very tempting.

However can you blame them, nobody’s policing it, every opportunity to do something about it comes with a ‘Agricultural and Forestry’ exemption just to muddy the waters, and if the clients doesn’t care, why should they?

 

I’ve had Tractors and Low loaders, they’re good earners, and the ability to move kit exactly when you want can make a huge difference.

 

Quite simply only one way to end it and that’s movement orders for Tractors moving any kind of plant or hauling material that is not produce.

They would have to state where to/from with holding numbers etc etc.

 

Simple online format, register where you’re moving to/from etc and pay your small fee.

The genuine guys would still be getting away as good as free in comparison to hiring haulage, but get caught off route in the middle of a housing estate with your dump trailer and you’re for it.

Wouldn’t be rocket science to introduce, would be self funding and simple enough to get your movement orders in place if you planned your work.

 

 

Eddie.

Yesterday saw farmer carting soil off building site with 3 large tractors and trailers every tractor was over 250hp and trailers were all Richard Western 18 and full so all over weight and bet running on red, thing is he owns land down the road  both sides of site so if stop could claim it come off one bit of his land and carting it to other. 

[LGP Eddie]

11 minutes ago, woody paul said:

Yesterday saw farmer carting soil off building site with 3 large tractors and trailers every tractor was over 250hp and trailers were all Richard Western 18 and full so all over weight and bet running on red, thing is he owns land down the road  both sides of site so if stop could claim it come off one bit of his land and carting it to other. 

Exactly, if it was from his land to his land there’s no issue 

 

He won’t have put the exact (remember we’re down to 3 metres x 3 metres now  technology readily accessible) location, and if caught coming off the site or nowhere near a realistic route he’s banged to rights there and then.

 

Remember some of us have to do this now to move kit we’re paying an awful lot to haul legal and plan around giving them two days notice to do it.

 

If a Farmer needs to move his 8 tonne machine down the road to a ditching job on Red with his own kit, no tacho, operators licence, lgv licence, digital drivers card, driver cpc and commercial insurance etc, then 5 minutes on an app and £20 seems quite reasonable for the convenience in my book?

 

 

Eddie.

[woody paul]

Can see how it may work, but just how many farmers would do it most near me move over size with no escort or just go over bridges with weight limit on it. 

 

[LGP Eddie]

38 minutes ago, woody paul said:

Can see how it may work, but just how many farmers would do it most near me move over size with no escort or just go over bridges with weight limit on it. 

 

If anyone was ever serious about making a start it’s a way that legit users aren’t particularly penalised, and those winging it know if stopped they’ll have a lot harder time than the blagging that goes on now.

 

For the authorities it gives a clear way of making it worthwhile to stop setups even if not hugely experienced in the legalities, and call in someone to go through the setup who is.

 

Will never happen, and it’s seriously tempting to get a Tractor again with this Red diesel job coming on.

 

 

Eddie.

 

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by LGP Eddie

[swinny]

So are you just saying to run white in tractors and crack on?