UK Windfarms “Lost opportunities “

[Mark Bolam]

Of course they would mate, but the Chinese don’t give a toss about emissions.

 

Alec’s post is correct, but Johnsond is also spot on about our lack of appetite for change.

 

We seem happy just to move the emissions problem sideways.

We all live on the same planet.

 

While I’m on a rant I would like to add that my 2006 diesel Transit is far more environmentally friendly than any electric veganmobile.

Lithium doesn’t grow on trees.

 

Most of the green energy thing is a short sighted crock of shit anyway, but we should at least use it to benefit our own country if we have the chance.

[Stubby]

1 hour ago, Mark Bolam said:

Of course they would mate, but the Chinese don’t give a toss about emissions.

 

Alec’s post is correct, but Johnsond is also spot on about our lack of appetite for change.

 

We seem happy just to move the emissions problem sideways.

We all live on the same planet.

 

While I’m on a rant I would like to add that my 2006 diesel Transit is far more environmentally friendly than any electric veganmobile.

Lithium doesn’t grow on trees.

 

Most of the green energy thing is a short sighted crock of shit anyway, but we should at least use it to benefit our own country if we have the chance.

This . The mining of and production of lithium and subsequently the manufacturing of the batteries produces a fair chunk of pollution .  

[Baldbloke]

Yet Germany and to a lesser extent Italy, still manage to have competitive manufacturing industries including toolmaking and machining. Due to the tighter environmental controls here surely emissions overall would be lower compared to places like China? 

In the ‘70s, prior to joining the EEC, and latterly the more politically driven EU, Britain had a reputation as a manufacturing base. Maybe we should reflect that good things like open travel and free mobile roaming happen through shared markets; but that politics and bent unelected foreign officials without oversight have other repercussions that disallow former protections to our manufacturing bases.

[sime42]

This . The mining of and production of lithium and subsequently the manufacturing of the batteries produces a fair chunk of pollution .  

This. Agreed.
I don't believe that electric cars are at all the panacea that they're widely hailed to be. The fact that the electricity they run on has to be generated in the first place seems to be conveniently overlooked. I doubt very much that as the proportion of electric cars increases our domestic renewable energy supply will be able to keep up. So regardless of power source we will still be reliant on burning fossil fuels to run cars on to some extent.
The fundamental problem is that there are too many cars on the roads and just as importantly too many unnecessary journeys made in them. We would all be better off if more short trips were made on foot or by bike, from both the environmental and personal health point of views. Take the obesity epidemic for instance. That could be improved by children walking to school and their parents cycling to work in the office, (where possible).

[sime42]

Cars.

[agg221]

1 hour ago, sime42 said:

This. Agreed.
I don't believe that electric cars are at all the panacea that they're widely hailed to be. The fact that the electricity they run on has to be generated in the first place seems to be conveniently overlooked. I doubt very much that as the proportion of electric cars increases our domestic renewable energy supply will be able to keep up. So regardless of power source we will still be reliant on burning fossil fuels to run cars on to some extent.
The fundamental problem is that there are too many cars on the roads and just as importantly too many unnecessary journeys made in them. We would all be better off if more short trips were made on foot or by bike, from both the environmental and personal health point of views. Take the obesity epidemic for instance. That could be improved by children walking to school and their parents cycling to work in the office, (where possible).

Unlikely to be fossil fuels. The main intention is nuclear (still fission, not fusion). Hinkley Point is well underway and Sizewell C will follow straight on behind (the team will move from one to the other as stages are completed). The big programme is the development of the Small Modular Reactor (SMR) with the intention of large scale international sales as well.

 

I'm also not wholly convinced by electric cars, due to issues with the batteries (not so much the lithium, which can be obtained from seawater but more the issues with cobalt). For batteries to be practical, higher energy densities are needed than lithium is capable of. There are other chemistries which work in the lab but converting them to practical products is a different thing entirely, mainly due to the issue of managing these extremely energy-intense systems without them catching fire. Even the lithium ones burn rather well and can't be put out once started (we had a rather impressive fire whilst doing the development work on the assembly process for a major OEM).

 

Travel to schools isn't that straightforward. My younger daughter is at primary - 3.5miles each way to the nearest one. Elder daughter is at secondary - 5.5miles to the one she attends, although there is a sink school about 3miles away if you just went for distance. If it was a mile or so it would be different.

 

Alec

Edited August 14, 2021 by agg221

[sime42]

Unlikely to be fossil fuels. The main intention is nuclear (still fission, not fusion). Hinkley Point is well underway and Sizewell C will follow straight on behind (the team will move from one to the other as stages are completed). The big programme is the development of the Small Modular Reactor (SMR) 5.5with the intention of large scale international sales as well.  

I'm also not wholly convinced by electric cars, due to issues with the batteries (not so much the lithium, which can be obtained from seawater but more the issues with cobalt). For batteries to be be practical, higher energy densities are needed than lithium is capable of. There are other chemistries which work in the lab but converting them to practical products is a different thing entirely, mainly due to the issue of managing these extremely energy-intense systems without them catching fire. Even the lithium ones burn rather well and can't be put out once started (we had a rather impressive fire whilst doing the development work on the assembly process for a major OEM).

 

Travel to schools isn't that straightforward. My younger daughter is at primary - 3.5miles each way to the nearest one. Elder daughter is at secondary - 5.5miles to the one she attends, although there is a sink school about 3miles away if you just went for distance. If it was a mile or so it would be different.

 

Alec

 

Nuclear is a tricky one. It makes me slightly nervous but I think it is a necessary evil; it's the only way we'll be able to satisfy our energy needs going into the not too distant future. 

 

Good insight into the chemistry there again. Why can't lithium fires be put out? The flames and bangs were always my favourite part of subject.

 

I realised that my thoughts were somewhat idealistic. Hence the qualifier at the end! Even so, I'm sure that a lot of children don't need to be driven to school by car every day.

 

 

 

[Doug Tait]

8 hours ago, sime42 said:

Nuclear is a tricky one. It makes me slightly nervous but I think it is a necessary evil; it's the only way we'll be able to satisfy our energy needs going into the not too distant future. 

 

Good insight into the chemistry there again. Why can't lithium fires be put out? The flames and bangs were always my favourite part of subject.

 

I realised that my thoughts were somewhat idealistic. Hence the qualifier at the end! Even so, I'm sure that a lot of children don't need to be driven to school by car every day.

 

 

 

Watched a Guy Martin programme about electric cars recently, he visited a Battery Destruction Test site.

 

The battery fires are an exothermic reaction (think that's the word for it) and generate their own heat chemically so even when they've apparently been extinguished will just start burning again. Fire service in Germany are testing a watertight container which they crane the whole car into then submerge in water to transport them safely.

 

Guy Martin: The World's Fastest Electric Car?

WWW.CHANNEL4.COM

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Guy explores the world of electric vehicles. Are they the future...

 

[Mark armstrong]

On 12/08/2021 at 22:16, Mark J said:

Those 'Yellow Jackets' were parked up near Jarrow for a while. I was amazed that they were shipped here for assembling rather than being fabricated here, a double piss take given the heritage of shipbuilding in the NE.

 

 

They ship all the parts  to the yard near me to get assembled here 

Swannys a think a gonna start building them now though sure it was on the news a while back 

[agg221]

 

15 hours ago, sime42 said:

Nuclear is a tricky one. It makes me slightly nervous but I think it is a necessary evil; it's the only way we'll be able to satisfy our energy needs going into the not too distant future. 

 

Good insight into the chemistry there again. Why can't lithium fires be put out? The flames and bangs were always my favourite part of subject.

 

I realised that my thoughts were somewhat idealistic. Hence the qualifier at the end! Even so, I'm sure that a lot of children don't need to be driven to school by car every day.

 

 

 

I am also not entirely happy with the choice to use nuclear, mainly because we still don't have a proper long term storage option for the waste, but we are stuck with it for at least the next 50 years. Fusion would be preferable as the radioactive isotopes formed have very short half-lives but it is still a long way off. The next project, which has been a global effort, might just generate more energy than it takes to fire it up but it is still a research project rather than a power supply.

 

Lithium ion batteries have three main components - an anode which 'stores' the lithium, a cathode which 'stores' the lithium compound and an electrolyte which allows the lithium ions to cross between the two. The electrolyte is usually an organic liquid (think diesel). During charging, the lithium metal deposits as individual atoms within the anode, which is usually made of graphite. If the battery is over-charged, you can get build-up of so many particles that they form solid metal. These regions form hot spots within the cells. Alternatively, if the battery is mechanically damaged, the anode and cathode can touch within a cell, forming a short circuit which gets hot. In either case, the heat in the cells can cause the cathode to break down, releasing oxygen. This burns with the organic electrolyte, generating more heat and forming gas. Eventually the cell container can burst, 'exploding' its contents and the heat causes adjacent cells to go up too, spreading throughout the battery until they have all burned. Because each individual cell contains both the fuel and the oxygen, they cannot be put out. Cooling does have some effect on slowing the spread. In the early days of battery development we punctured a cell with a laser whilst welding the connecting tab on - rather a blackened laser cell and our insurers asked what we were going to do differently if we wanted to continue to be insured...

 

I entirely agree that if/how journeys are made needs a major review in the context of reducing energy consumption and that includes the school run. The reality for many in rural areas is that schools, place of work, shops etc. just aren't within a realistic travelling distance and public transport is not viable. That said, in more urban areas there are more options and walking/cycling to school should certainly be an option for many older children. I walked to my primary school with my mum, but she didn't work as in those days it was viable to pay the mortgage on a single wage. I didn't walk to my middle school (three tier system) as although the distance was OK, half a mile of it was up a main road with no footpath or verge. Secondary was 10miles and I only walked if I missed the school bus! My wife and I both work to pay the mortgage so both our children have been on the school bus since the age of 4. Fortunately my timings allow me to drop them at the bus stop. One indirect impact of COVID has been more people working from home and that looks likely to continue in part through hybrid or flexible working. Some jobs require you to be on site, but a lot of office-based jobs have more options. It's pretty bad for mental health to do that full-time though, and trying to develop functional teams is particularly challenging, so travel is going to have to increase again I think.

 

Alec

 

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by agg221