Getting rid of ivy!!

[Peasgood]

1 hour ago, CambridgeJC said:

To get things clear. None of those in this forum are tree huggers and noone is unhinged either.

Well that is a fallacy for starters.

[monkeybusiness]

This thread contains all of the evidence required to reinforce why you should never believe any ‘facts’ found on the internet!

What an enormous pile of bullshit from a vociferous but ill-informed few!!!

[agg221]

Two oak trees, approximately 15 miles apart. Both growing on field boundaries, both mature and retrenching.

 

I have driven past the first tree pretty much every day for the past 20yrs on the way to work. 20yrs ago the ivy was halfway up. Compare:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1139856,0.2215654,3a,75y,310.13h,94.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s01WKkDfSwnmfb5MXstbNwA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

with:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1139713,0.2214872,3a,75y,309.72h,96.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sK9yHR8YmAaxB2ALHdqa8Hg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

(you have to look carefully but note that in the first image the tree is in leaf which covers most of the crown, whereas in the second it is in winter so the leaves are all ivy (much darker green)).

 

The two branches sticking out to the right are alive but pretty much all the epicormic growth which was developing as a retrenchment crown has been swamped. It has certainly progressed to the top of the crown and swamped it, before the tree was dead. There are several oaks in a wood about 300yds from that spot which are similarly covered all the way to the top. They are not all dead (I keep an eye on them as I have an arrangement to fell and mill any trees which die) but all those which have been covered in ivy have died while adjacent trees (sometimes less than 6' apart) without ivy have not. The wood is overcrowded and should have been thinned so the trees are all stressed.

 

The second tree is on the corner of our field, which we bought 9yrs ago. The ivy was similarly halfway up the crown. I cut back all ivy from the ground up as far as I could reach standing on the ground except the major stem and everything down to the crown break in about 2015. In doing so, I found that all the epicormic growth under the ivy was dead, notably around the major wound on the trunk (caused by a lorry misjudging the turn some years before). In the subsequent 7yrs, epicormic growth has returned to those areas I cleared off. I have kept the low area clear but left the upper part. The ivy has now grown out from the crown break most of the way up the major limbs. I will be cutting it back again shortly.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.0617419,0.4871101,3a,75y,0.59h,109.05t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1ssO1xab7dSnESqQzOtMkXDA!2e0!5s20210401T000000!7i16384!8i8192

 

My observation is that ivy can overwhelm the crown of a retrenching oak, whereas if not present the epicormic growth can enable retrenchment, the ivy therefore being a causal factor in the death of the tree.

 

Alec

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by agg221

[Sutton]

2 hours ago, john87 said:

Hi there, I am not a "proper" arb at all, just a sort of amateur i suppose. I do my best to look after a badly neglected site of about 60 acres with many many trees, many of which are covered with ivy. It has been getting worse the last few years, so i will cut it all back when i have time..

 

Costs me a lot of time and my own money to do it, but some things are just worth doing!!

 

john..

Start a new thread with pics about your trees and your plans. People may give you some useful advice.

[JSN]

8 hours ago, sime42 said:

Interesting. Why Ash in particular?

As I understand it Ash are susceptible due to their open branching structure allowing more light to reach the inner crown / trunk.  They are also late into leaf and often early to drop, in comparison with other trees, which favours Ivy’s main growth periods of early spring and early autumn.  

[CambridgeJC]

3 hours ago, Mick Dempsey said:

It’ll climb walls and buildings, fence posts and treated fences.

 

No trees are immune, none seem particularly attractive 

The real unanswered question is why doesn’t it overwhelm the crowns of living trees? Yet a dead tree gets engulfed.

How does it know?

Good question Mick. Is it possible that the tree just manages to keep growing beyond the growth of the ivy???

Have you a camera on your phone? If so you could just take a few snaps and show us whst you mean. I fully believe you. This is most interesting and a good observation. Thanks. 

[openspaceman]

2 minutes ago, JSN said:

Ivy’s main growth periods of early spring and early autumn.  

Both of which are extended all the time soil temperature is high. I think I am seeing this with gorse as well whereas deciduous trees can only grow when in leaf

[CambridgeJC]

1 hour ago, monkeybusiness said:

This thread contains all of the evidence required to reinforce why you should never believe any ‘facts’ found on the internet!

What an enormous pile of bullshit from a vociferous but ill-informed few!!!

Can you be a bit more specific? You may have a point but just saying this simply fails to make your point. It only suggests that you are the only informed person which simply cannot be true. Give us a chance to agree with you by providing an example. Please. Thanks 

[sime42]

As I understand it Ash are susceptible due to their open branching structure allowing more light to reach the inner crown / trunk.  They are also late into leaf and often early to drop, in comparison with other trees, which favours Ivy’s main growth periods of early spring and early autumn.  

 

Thanks. That all makes sense. Not something I've thought about before.

So Mick was right, top marks @Mick Dempsey!

 

 

[CambridgeJC]

1 hour ago, agg221 said:

Two oak trees, approximately 15 miles apart. Both growing on field boundaries, both mature and retrenching.

 

I have driven past the first tree pretty much every day for the past 20yrs on the way to work. 20yrs ago the ivy was halfway up. Compare:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1139856,0.2215654,3a,75y,310.13h,94.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s01WKkDfSwnmfb5MXstbNwA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

with:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1139713,0.2214872,3a,75y,309.72h,96.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sK9yHR8YmAaxB2ALHdqa8Hg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

(you have to look carefully but note that in the first image the tree is in leaf which covers most of the crown, whereas in the second it is in winter so the leaves are all ivy (much darker green)).

 

The two branches sticking out to the right are alive but pretty much all the epicormic growth which was developing as a retrenchment crown has been swamped. It has certainly progressed to the top of the crown and swamped it, before the tree was dead. There are several oaks in a wood about 300yds from that spot which are similarly covered all the way to the top. They are not all dead (I keep an eye on them as I have an arrangement to fell and mill any trees which die) but all those which have been covered in ivy have died while adjacent trees (sometimes less than 6' apart) without ivy have not. The wood is overcrowded and should have been thinned so the trees are all stressed.

 

The second tree is on the corner of our field, which we bought 9yrs ago. The ivy was similarly halfway up the crown. I cut back all ivy from the ground up as far as I could reach standing on the ground except the major stem and everything down to the crown break in about 2015. In doing so, I found that all the epicormic growth under the ivy was dead, notably around the major wound on the trunk (caused by a lorry misjudging the turn some years before). In the subsequent 7yrs, epicormic growth has returned to those areas I cleared off. I have kept the low area clear but left the upper part. The ivy has now grown out from the crown break most of the way up the major limbs. I will be cutting it back again shortly.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.0617419,0.4871101,3a,75y,0.59h,109.05t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1ssO1xab7dSnESqQzOtMkXDA!2e0!5s20210401T000000!7i16384!8i8192

 

My observation is that ivy can overwhelm the crown of a retrenching oak, whereas if not present the epicormic growth can enable retrenchment, the ivy therefore being a causal factor in the death of the tree.

 

Alec

 

Alec. You are just around the corner to me in Linton. Your links are really helpful. Are the first two on different years?  I can find my own image by running the links forward. Just what I need to make a comparison. But I just need the dates for each. Thanks