Red diesel

[Canal Navvy]

I've been dipped three times in 30 years, twice when  drive past testers have spotted the diesel stains round the filler of the land rover and once on a multi agency check on the motorway. 

There are no realistic alternatives to using diesel prime movers on most off road applications at the moment. 

The only thing that really annoys me is seeing the amount of duty rebated fuel being used to produce "green " energy. ☹️

 

A forage harvester running an energy drum (set up for really short chop as needed by biodigesters) will gobble two and a half litres of fuel every minute 😜

Edited April 15, 2021 by Canal Navvy

[topchippyles]

12 minutes ago, Mark Bolam said:

Well said Matty.

 

Squaredy you are talking like a townie who drives a Prius and thinks they are saving the planet without giving enough thought to where the electricity comes from.

 

Do you have any idea how much diesel a big arable farm gets through in a year?

 

Oh great, they can just all go out and buy a Tesla combine and the price of food will stay the same.

 

Really simplistic, badly thought out post.  

Just because the government want to **************** everyone over who actually works for a living doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a good idea.

Same crossed my mind when he posted it but we all have our own opinions. 

[Paul in the woods]

16 minutes ago, Mark Bolam said:

How would you grow forage beet then Paul?

Fairy dust?

Not enough fairies around these parts for that.

 

I probably wouldn't grow it at all, it wasn't grown around here a couple of years ago and now it seems all the rage. I'm genuinely curious as to why it's grown as I can't see how it's that economic to grow. Possibly extra grants or to use up all the slurry and sewage waste. It also causes a large amount of pollution through run off in the streams and the amount of pesticides required also seems high.

 

As for the concern the farmers couldn't cope without red, their subsidies could be increased if there was a will to do so. (No, I'm not that naive to think it would happen).

[Mark Bolam]

That’s a good answer Paul, it’s grown because there is a need for it and it pays. Simple agri-economics.

 

The subsidies thing is a can of worms.

Most farmers I know would rather be paid a fair price for what they do in the first place and not need them.

 

It’s a bit more deep than that though.

[Squaredy]

1 hour ago, skyhuck said:

Red is not subsidised fuel.

Well, yes it is subsidised as the industries which produce the fuel cause a vast amount of environmental damage which they generally do not clean up.  The other way it is subsidised is that the pollution caused by burning diesel is not mitigated or cleaned up by the producer or generally the user.

 

The cost of the climate crisis we are all facing is borne by us and everybody around the world, so yes red diesel is subsidised.  As is aviation fuel, but that is another story.  And don't get me started on the filthy stuff they use in ships!  So thick and tarry it needs to be heated before it can be pumped out of the tanks!  

[Squaredy]

1 hour ago, Mark Bolam said:

Well said Matty.

 

Squaredy you are talking like a townie who drives a Prius and thinks they are saving the planet without giving enough thought to where the electricity comes from.

 

Do you have any idea how much diesel a big arable farm gets through in a year?

 

Oh great, they can just all go out and buy a Tesla combine and the price of food will stay the same.

 

Really simplistic, badly thought out post.  

Just because the government want to **************** everyone over who actually works for a living doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a good idea.

Is food so expensive?  I would say food in the UK is generally pretty cheap,  What proportion of our income do we spend on food in modern times?  Certainly far less than when I was a schoolboy.

 

One major reason it is cheap is the vast farm subsidies (I know we have left the EU but I assume the farm subsidies have not suddenly stopped).  If food were more expensive perhaps we would eat less meat and more veg.  Perhaps we would not waste a third of what we buy.

 

New Zealand have managed to abolish farming subsidies completely I believe, and they still manage to feed themselves.

[Baldbloke]

I used to carry out emission tests on plant for some customers. The emissions from red diesel were much higher than the same engines running "white" derv because red lacks the additives and burns less cleanly.

Believe that’s not the case nowadays. The sole difference is supposed to be the dye. After all, who’d put shitty fuel in their 80k new tractor.

[Mark Bolam]

19 minutes ago, Squaredy said:

Is food so expensive?  I would say food in the UK is generally pretty cheap,  What proportion of our income do we spend on food in modern times?  Certainly far less than when I was a schoolboy.

 

One major reason it is cheap is the vast farm subsidies (I know we have left the EU but I assume the farm subsidies have not suddenly stopped).  If food were more expensive perhaps we would eat less meat and more veg.  Perhaps we would not waste a third of what we buy.

 

New Zealand have managed to abolish farming subsidies completely I believe, and they still manage to feed themselves.

Food IS too cheap mate, but it’s not the producers who want cheap prices?

I’m totally with you on the waste thing, it’s an utter disgrace.

[Baldbloke]

Is food so expensive?  I would say food in the UK is generally pretty cheap,  What proportion of our income do we spend on food in modern times?  Certainly far less than when I was a schoolboy.
 
One major reason it is cheap is the vast farm subsidies (I know we have left the EU but I assume the farm subsidies have not suddenly stopped).  If food were more expensive perhaps we would eat less meat and more veg.  Perhaps we would not waste a third of what we buy.
 
New Zealand have managed to abolish farming subsidies completely I believe, and they still manage to feed themselves.

True. Food costs were historically more expensive in taking the proportion of a wage needed then as against now.
There again, I could visit the boozer each night 30 odd years ago, which would be an impossibility now off my present earnings.

What people don’t realise is the damage we did to NZ agriculture by largely abandoning NZ butter and lamb when we joined the EEC prior to it becoming the f****** EU.

[spuddog0507]

Was in a farm yard tonight cutting some dead trees up to go in to a boiler, when Sam rolled in with a John Deer with a 6 furrow plough, and pulled up to the diesel tank to fill up, he came across and said he had been out since just gone 6 and it would be dark when he gets back, he went back to see how his refueling was going and all i heard was loads of bad language, there is 2 6000 ltr tanks side by side that where filled up monday diner time, the one he was using was now empty, Sam has been ploughing for 2 days with a 300hp JD another lad is tanking with another 300hp JD and 4000 gallon tank, another umbilicaling, another spreading box muck to be ploughed in, various sheds being cleaned out now stock has gone out, so 6000 ltrs of fuel in 3 1/2 days = 3.8 k if they had to run on full cost fuel they would of used £7800 in the 3 1/2 days making a £4000 differenc so how much would are food have to go up ??  this is starting to look a bit different now and that 4k only equates to 3 1/2 days they have loads more to do yet like preping the seed bed drilling it, more ploughing when the Maize goes in in may, so if this is only 3 1/2 days how much will it cost in total with the other 361 1/2 days added to 3 1/2 ? and some say they wouldnt mind paying full price for diesel ?, bit of a difference tho between using 25ltrs or 12,000ltes a week, if this was past on to the end user how much would are food go up ??? i dont even want to think about it,,,