Red diesel

[openspaceman]

30 minutes ago, Treewolf said:

Therefore if you own something like an unregistered vintage tractor that isn't used for ag, forestry, or horticulture but just as a hobby or for low-loadering to shows etc., it appears it must run on white.

Yes that's my take on it, as soon as it propels something not within the exemptions it must be on DERV.  There apears to be an exemption for stationary use as long as it's not commercial. So currently I am thinking if you are running a wood chipper in a domestic dwelling for horticultural purposes it can use red, if you do the same in a commercial situation, like a pub car park or development site, it must be DERV but if it's in hospital grounds?

[Craig.]

21 hours ago, swinny said:

Yup so whats people winging about? 

 

Tree's are covered under horticulture. The tree's in agg land etc Storm in a teacup from these pussys on here

Agree with swinny, it not going to affect arb use. 

But, look around you there wont be many products that wont of had some thing that`s has used red diesel along it route to you, in the short term its going to increase costs.

Plant used in quarrying, house building, road repair, container handlers moving/loading shipping containers of tat (and good stuff), forklifts unloading these containers loading/unloading trucks, fridge trucks delivering food, and plenty of other things. The cost will be passed on.

[spuddog0507]

1 hour ago, Craig. said:

Agree with swinny, it not going to affect arb use. 

But, look around you there wont be many products that wont of had some thing that`s has used red diesel along it route to you, in the short term its going to increase costs.

Plant used in quarrying, house building, road repair, container handlers moving/loading shipping containers of tat (and good stuff), forklifts unloading these containers loading/unloading trucks, fridge trucks delivering food, and plenty of other things. The cost will be passed on.

A lot of people are thinking Arb work is Horticulture ? i understand it that it is not under the same unbrella as Horticulture ? Horticulture is growing plants,trees.shrubs for food use i,e fruit n veg, i have read a lot on the use of red diesel in the last 12 month as i have just spent a chunk of my hard earned cash on a project that is to be used for both extracting timber and transporting timber back to base from with in forestry work,  for the said project to be taxed and insured as agricultural and run on red diesel is fine for what we are going to be doing with it, but if i was to go to a arb job and remove the timber or Arb waste as it is classed with the said project it is a total different ball game then and i would be a long way from being leagal, The lads who run a tractor or unimog for Arb use and have it taxed n insured as agricultural and run on red diesel and think this is fine, just have a proper look at what is permitted ?, from what i understand is the only time a tractor or unimog working in Arb and can be taxed n insured as agricultural and be run on red diesel is when it is working on roadside trees with in the highway boundry, for general arb work they should be taxed n insured under general haulage and run on white !! I did post on this site a few month back about i guy i know with a Unimog and some one ran in to it when it was parked up at a job and he is up shit creek now with DVLA (taxation class) VOSA (roadworthiness of the Mog) Customs and excise (fuel duty) HMRC (frauding the government) and Greater Manchester constabulary so far its cost him about 30k and it aint finished yet, so is red fine in arb work,

[doobin]

1 hour ago, spuddog0507 said:

A lot of people are thinking Arb work is Horticulture ? i understand it that it is not under the same unbrella as Horticulture ? Horticulture is growing plants,trees.shrubs for food use i,e fruit n veg, i have read a lot on the use of red diesel in the last 12 month as i have just spent a chunk of my hard earned cash on a project that is to be used for both extracting timber and transporting timber back to base from with in forestry work,  for the said project to be taxed and insured as agricultural and run on red diesel is fine for what we are going to be doing with it, but if i was to go to a arb job and remove the timber or Arb waste as it is classed with the said project it is a total different ball game then and i would be a long way from being leagal, The lads who run a tractor or unimog for Arb use and have it taxed n insured as agricultural and run on red diesel and think this is fine, just have a proper look at what is permitted ?, from what i understand is the only time a tractor or unimog working in Arb and can be taxed n insured as agricultural and be run on red diesel is when it is working on roadside trees with in the highway boundry, for general arb work they should be taxed n insured under general haulage and run on white !! I did post on this site a few month back about i guy i know with a Unimog and some one ran in to it when it was parked up at a job and he is up shit creek now with DVLA (taxation class) VOSA (roadworthiness of the Mog) Customs and excise (fuel duty) HMRC (frauding the government) and Greater Manchester constabulary so far its cost him about 30k and it aint finished yet, so is red fine in arb work,

Arb is horticultural until you get caught...🙄

[Craig.]

1 hour ago, spuddog0507 said:

A lot of people are thinking Arb work is Horticulture ? i understand it that it is not under the same unbrella as Horticulture ? Horticulture is growing plants,trees.shrubs for food use i,e fruit n veg, i have read a lot on the use of red diesel in the last 12 month as i have just spent a chunk of my hard earned cash on a project that is to be used for both extracting timber and transporting timber back to base from with in forestry work,  for the said project to be taxed and insured as agricultural and run on red diesel is fine for what we are going to be doing with it, but if i was to go to a arb job and remove the timber or Arb waste as it is classed with the said project it is a total different ball game then and i would be a long way from being leagal, The lads who run a tractor or unimog for Arb use and have it taxed n insured as agricultural and run on red diesel and think this is fine, just have a proper look at what is permitted ?, from what i understand is the only time a tractor or unimog working in Arb and can be taxed n insured as agricultural and be run on red diesel is when it is working on roadside trees with in the highway boundry, for general arb work they should be taxed n insured under general haulage and run on white !! I did post on this site a few month back about i guy i know with a Unimog and some one ran in to it when it was parked up at a job and he is up shit creek now with DVLA (taxation class) VOSA (roadworthiness of the Mog) Customs and excise (fuel duty) HMRC (frauding the government) and Greater Manchester constabulary so far its cost him about 30k and it aint finished yet, so is red fine in arb work,

While I agree with you about tractors etc, maintaining a tree in Mrs Miggins garden and using a diesel chipper could be classed as horticulture (one definition  Horticulture is the art of cultivating plants in gardens to produce food and medicinal ingredients, or for comfort and ornamental purposes  )

Sorry to have quoted swinny, as it confused thoughts on the matter, my original reason for the post was to say this fuel reform will effect almost every one in the pocket. 

 

[swinny]

2 hours ago, spuddog0507 said:

A lot of people are thinking Arb work is Horticulture ? i understand it that it is not under the same unbrella as Horticulture ? Horticulture is growing plants,trees.shrubs for food use i,e fruit n veg, i have read a lot on the use of red diesel in the last 12 month as i have just spent a chunk of my hard earned cash on a project that is to be used for both extracting timber and transporting timber back to base from with in forestry work,  for the said project to be taxed and insured as agricultural and run on red diesel is fine for what we are going to be doing with it, but if i was to go to a arb job and remove the timber or Arb waste as it is classed with the said project it is a total different ball game then and i would be a long way from being leagal, The lads who run a tractor or unimog for Arb use and have it taxed n insured as agricultural and run on red diesel and think this is fine, just have a proper look at what is permitted ?, from what i understand is the only time a tractor or unimog working in Arb and can be taxed n insured as agricultural and be run on red diesel is when it is working on roadside trees with in the highway boundry, for general arb work they should be taxed n insured under general haulage and run on white !! I did post on this site a few month back about i guy i know with a Unimog and some one ran in to it when it was parked up at a job and he is up shit creek now with DVLA (taxation class) VOSA (roadworthiness of the Mog) Customs and excise (fuel duty) HMRC (frauding the government) and Greater Manchester constabulary so far its cost him about 30k and it aint finished yet, so is red fine in arb work,

There is also an exemption from running X amount of miles from base think it's 15 and to power implement etc just no haulage from what I recollect. 

 

Either way it's all speculation, Chinese whispers and bollocks till something is made official.

 

Why folks on here get knickers in a twist is beyond me. Are a lot of folks buying from garage forecourts in small amounts and not in bulk etc?

[Squaredy]

As far as I am aware the majority of farmer's tractors running on the road are not allowed to use red, even if they are actively farming. 

 

A few years ago I invested in a specialist book on the subject written by the leading UK expert on the subject (who actually advises the police on the law) and as well as being excruciatingly complicated I remember that farmers are only allowed to use tractors on the road for a very short distance (1 mile from memory) whilst traveling between parcels of land they own or farm.  Even agricultural contractors therefore are not allowed to use red.

 

I think it is a case of the laws are simply ignored by both users and the authorities, and in any case would be almost impossible to enforce.  Sadly the newly proposed laws are going to make this whole issue even more complicated.

[Squaredy]

12 minutes ago, Squaredy said:

As far as I am aware the majority of farmer's tractors running on the road are not allowed to use red, even if they are actively farming. 

 

A few years ago I invested in a specialist book on the subject written by the leading UK expert on the subject (who actually advises the police on the law) and as well as being excruciatingly complicated I remember that farmers are only allowed to use tractors on the road for a very short distance (1 mile from memory) whilst traveling between parcels of land they own or farm.  Even agricultural contractors therefore are not allowed to use red.

 

I think it is a case of the laws are simply ignored by both users and the authorities, and in any case would be almost impossible to enforce.  Sadly the newly proposed laws are going to make this whole issue even more complicated.

Or is this the rule for specialist vehicles other than tractors...?  I may have got my memories a little mixed...!  Are tractors OK as long as they are farming?

[spuddog0507]

1 hour ago, doobin said:

Arb is horticultural until you get caught...🙄

Is it really ! Horticulture and Arbourculture, two totally different words with two very different meanings, Ok there may be a slight cross over in some cases but far from it in many cases of arb work, 

[swinny]

6 minutes ago, spuddog0507 said:

Is it really ! Horticulture and Arbourculture, two totally different words with two very different meanings, Ok there may be a slight cross over in some cases but far from it in many cases of arb work, 

Singing songs of positivity from you here tonight pal