Awful Stink!

[Billhook]

House could be haunted!

[Steven P]

Dust... so try dusting the stove next time? use a damp cloth and wipe it down and see. Not something I have encountered even with the first fire of the season. I know I will get it from the storage heaters if I ever use them again (6 years of dust in them now)

 

 

or ghosts - Billhook might be onto something, ectoplasm maybe?

[trigger_andy]

8 minutes ago, Steven P said:

Dust... so try dusting the stove next time? use a damp cloth and wipe it down and see. Not something I have encountered even with the first fire of the season. I know I will get it from the storage heaters if I ever use them again (6 years of dust in them now)

 

 

or ghosts - Billhook might be onto something, ectoplasm maybe?

Every time I fire up a heater thats collected dust I just get the usual burning dust smell. Kinda like the mix between toast burning and an electrical fire. But surely every adult knows that smell? 

[gary112]

5 hours ago, Stubby said:

You can't get a more dusty place than ours at times ( the stove ash makes dust anyway ) and I have never smelt what you describe . If you power up a Vox AC30 after being stood for some time I can smell the dust burning off the hot valves but it is not toxic  .  Got to be something else .

Same here,ours is often very dusty but don,t get no bad smell as described,can,t see how its that

[Emmsy]

Thanks everyone. 

You're right, it sure doesn't smell like dust. It's so awful. And in any case, I hoover and wipe it thoroughly all the time. 

I've phoned a local company who are going to take a look in Thursday. 

I just need to know it's safe. 

[woodland dweller]

Emmsy,

That Creosote smell is truly horrendous, makes your eyes sting, i will tell you how i know.

In our unused end room we have a stove which is only lit when the weather is really cold, its lined and on an external

wall. When lit the misses would let it slumber all the bloody time (the rows we had over this), anyway hours after it was lit the room was filled with toxic fumes and the only thing to do was to let it out and try again another day.

When i took the time to investigate i found that slumbering it for years their was a deposit of creosote sticking to the 

liner that brushing would not remove, and the mix of condensation during no burn times and being on an outside wall

would build up and when lit would soften the creosote this liquid would run down the inside of the flue and run out of

a hole where the pipes join then run down the outside of the flue and build up on the top surface of the stove, the heat would then cook it and make the smell.

You need to call in the sweep to do a camera inspection of the inside of the liner to check all is ok. Inspect the outside

of the flue yourself to see if their is any sign of gunge escaping. 

We cured ours by opening all the windows and burn it hot for a few days. And urika she now runs all our stoves hot

and never slumbers, we run two.

Maybe the previous owner slumbered the stove and never burnt off the condensation that can build up if a flue is not used for a period of time, especially of an external wall.

Do some research on Google as their is stuff on their about condensation in flues.

[Emmsy]

51 minutes ago, woodland dweller said:

Emmsy,

That Creosote smell is truly horrendous, makes your eyes sting, i will tell you how i know.

In our unused end room we have a stove which is only lit when the weather is really cold, its lined and on an external

wall. When lit the misses would let it slumber all the bloody time (the rows we had over this), anyway hours after it was lit the room was filled with toxic fumes and the only thing to do was to let it out and try again another day.

When i took the time to investigate i found that slumbering it for years their was a deposit of creosote sticking to the 

liner that brushing would not remove, and the mix of condensation during no burn times and being on an outside wall

would build up and when lit would soften the creosote this liquid would run down the inside of the flue and run out of

a hole where the pipes join then run down the outside of the flue and build up on the top surface of the stove, the heat would then cook it and make the smell.

You need to call in the sweep to do a camera inspection of the inside of the liner to check all is ok. Inspect the outside

of the flue yourself to see if their is any sign of gunge escaping. 

We cured ours by opening all the windows and burn it hot for a few days. And urika she now runs all our stoves hot

and never slumbers, we run two.

Maybe the previous owner slumbered the stove and never burnt off the condensation that can build up if a flue is not used for a period of time, especially of an external wall.

Do some research on Google as their is stuff on their about condensation in flues.

This is really interesting and has certainly got me thinking. 

I guess getting a sweep to clean it (as we did) wouldn't solve such a problem. 

I will research it further and suggest it to the person visiting us on Thursday. Hopefully they bring a camera. 

It's not on an external wall, it goes straight in to the loft (bungalow) and out, without a chimney. 

Thanks so much for the useful help!! 

[Alycidon]

On 05/04/2021 at 20:09, woodland dweller said:

Emmsy,

That Creosote smell is truly horrendous, makes your eyes sting, i will tell you how i know.

In our unused end room we have a stove which is only lit when the weather is really cold, its lined and on an external

wall. When lit the misses would let it slumber all the bloody time (the rows we had over this), anyway hours after it was lit the room was filled with toxic fumes and the only thing to do was to let it out and try again another day.

When i took the time to investigate i found that slumbering it for years their was a deposit of creosote sticking to the 

liner that brushing would not remove, and the mix of condensation during no burn times and being on an outside wall

would build up and when lit would soften the creosote this liquid would run down the inside of the flue and run out of

a hole where the pipes join then run down the outside of the flue and build up on the top surface of the stove, the heat would then cook it and make the smell.

You need to call in the sweep to do a camera inspection of the inside of the liner to check all is ok. Inspect the outside

of the flue yourself to see if their is any sign of gunge escaping. 

We cured ours by opening all the windows and burn it hot for a few days. And urika she now runs all our stoves hot

and never slumbers, we run two.

Maybe the previous owner slumbered the stove and never burnt off the condensation that can build up if a flue is not used for a period of time, especially of an external wall.

Do some research on Google as their is stuff on their about condensation in flues.

The stove is a Morso 3116 Badger, as a Morso UK dealer I can tell you its one of the best stoves in the world,  the colour which is a dedicated Morso colour looks original so that suggests to me that the stove has not been repainted.   It also suggests that the stove has done very little work unless it has been repainted.   Morso sell paint in pots for brush application or aerosols, these take3 or 4 very thin coats only to cover,    If its been hand painted that will tend to show brush marks,    that being the case the paint could be the issue as it will have been applied to thickly.         Usually 4 or 5 fires of increasing temperatures will cure the paint on the stove ex works or an aerosol respray and any smells will disappear.

 

However the quality of the installation work is poor,  the gap at the sides of the stove while legal are insufficient to allow a good air flow around the stove to get the heat coming out in the room.   You need at least 100mm each side,   I would be surprised if you have that.  The hearth looks fine,   but wall paper right up to the edge of the opening is a bit risky,  stoves get hot, wall paper is combustible. Morso recommend at least 800mm of clearance from the front to combustibles and soft furnishings.

 

There is also an issue with the beam above the opening if its wood,  minimum combustible clearance from any part of the flue pipe in a straight line to the beam is x3 the flue pipe diameter,    so 375mm.     If the beam is cast ( thus non combustible as its made from a type of plaster) then there should be no problem with it.  It is wood then there may well be,

 

The minimum combustible clearance above the top of the stove is 500mm,  looks like you have that OK.

 

I would like to see some pictures of exactly whats been done in the loft area if its not been flued into a brick chimney,  that being the case also some external pics of the flue pipe and the roof .    

 

The advice above re a camera inspection carried out by a registered sweep is very sound, there will be nothing wrong with the stove believe me,  I  have sold them for 12 years without a single issue.   

 

My money is on a tar build up caused by slumbering an older stove,  ( new stoves are set up in such a way that you cant shut them all the way down),   they can still produce tar though if wet wood is put into them,  

 

One issue I have come across in the past is a new flue liner put into a tar lined brick chimney,     the tar must be removed before a new liner is installed,  otherwise the hot flue liner will melt/set fire to it.   That will continue to emit smells for ever and be dangerous to boot. 

 

Do you have a Hetas (or similar) sign off certificate for the install,    this will identify the installer.    If there is a stainless steel flue liner within a brick or masonry chimney then you should have a metal plate usually kept near the electrical fuse box,  this will identify the make and diameter of the flue liner, who installed it and when.

 

If you have nothing check with your local building control office if they have a record of the installation,  the installation of a stove is a notifiable  requirement under the building regulations.    If they do then that will give you installer details or you can check with Hetas to see if they have a record based on your address,   Hetas will charge you £25 for a new certificate.      But there are now other approved bodies apart from Hetas so building control would be my first stop.

 

If building control have no record you need to speak to me or other trade professional as to how to proceed.    A chimney fire over a stove non certified as safe to use will almost certainly result in any insurance claim being refused.

 

Dont get here that often , to busy, so apologies for the late reply.

 

A

Edited April 9, 2021 by Alycidon

[Alycidon]

On 04/04/2021 at 15:14, Emmsy said:

Yes sir, sorry sir. 

 

I honestly don't know. I'd say it looks painted. 

 

Thanks for the 'scabby' comment 😂

This is also dangerous,   pipe where is fits into the flue flange on the stove should also be secured with 3 x stainless pop rivets or self tappers to stop an enthusiastic sweep parting the pipes..   The joint above is not all the way home,   probably because someone cut the flue liner to short.

 

A

[Emmsy]

On 09/04/2021 at 16:56, Alycidon said:

This is also dangerous,   pipe where is fits into the flue flange on the stove should also be secured with 3 x stainless pop rivets or self tappers to stop an enthusiastic sweep parting the pipes..   The joint above is not all the way home,   probably because someone cut the flue liner to short.

 

A

Thanks all so much for your really useful guidance.

 

I got a specialist round last week to have a good look. I'm not sure we really established what the smell is, but to summarise the appointment it ended with 'I wouldn't light that ever again!'.

 

I forget all the things she said were wrong with the set up, but a few were:

• Hearth too short so burner too close to carpet.
• Fibre glass etc falling on top metal plate (blanking plate is it called? where the flue goes through to the loft - made of steel) as not sealed in loft, there's just a big hole - could catch fire.
• Hot metal plate touching right up against wood beams.
• Electricity cable (I think for outdoor lights) running alongside flue in loft and touching the hot pipe.
• Burner too close to side walls - which are made of v thin brick and plasterboard.
• Vertical pipe in living room so close to walls it's the wrong type - should be insulated or something.

There were other things that I've forgotten. The summary was it's dangerous, it could catch fire (in the wrong way!) and I shouldn't light it again.

 

Unfortunately, to replace it with another log burner requires the removal and replacement of bricks (therefore redecoration), new hearth (therefore new carpet!), new chimney flue, etc etc - in other words, a total fortune and a right mess. Unfortunately, the set-up doesn't allow for a gas installation either, without significant upheaval.

 

So we're going to go for an electric stove - one that looks similar, and stick an artificial flue on it to give the effect. I'm not happy about it, but it's the only realistic solution.

 

Unfortunately, the installation was carried out  by the previous owners. Also unfortunately, as we are in Scotland I have been told that there is no legal requirement for installers to be Hetas registered, so there is no paperwork. I do know who the installers were, but I fear it will be a case of one word against another, and as were weren't the original purchases I'm not sure it's a battle I have the energy to fight. I think we'll have to chalk it up as one of life's hurdles, and just pay for the replacement electric stove.

 

So, crap news. But I'm glad to know the situation - I could have carried on and persevered with the smell, unaware of the significant risks it poses.

 

Thanks again for all your efforts!!