The woodsure scheme, do we need it?

[difflock]

5 hours ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

Is she a babe?  Niiiiiice 😂

 

just had the RHI newsletter, Woodsure having taken over from Gemserve as the administration of that scheme. 
 

Their latest ‘long screwdriver’ QUAnGO, self justification, money spinning scheme is to develop and impose a maintenance schedule / requirement for biomass boiler owners.....

 

Got to pay for next years holiday and a boob job for PA somehow.....

 

 

Pity they still wont pay for the lube  .  .  .

[Nicholas Johnson]

On 25/08/2021 at 08:57, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

Is she a babe?  Niiiiiice 😂

 

just had the RHI newsletter, Woodsure having taken over from Gemserve as the administration of that scheme. 
 

Their latest ‘long screwdriver’ QUAnGO, self justification, money spinning scheme is to develop and impose a maintenance schedule / requirement for biomass boiler owners.....

 

Got to pay for next years holiday and a boob job for PA somehow.....

 

 

Mate the woman that phoned me certainly sounded like a babe! 🤤

 

But honest to god, what a joke if an auditor is on holiday in 'their busiest time' as they call it.

 

Unfortunately for us, this isn't going to just go away, I've bitten the bullet and will get things sorted as either way we'll need to do this before May! 

[Alycidon]

On 14/08/2021 at 09:54, Big J said:

 

That wasn't my intention. What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter how diligent a retailer is (best before and use by dates, for example), a person can still do themselves harm by ignoring the guidance. 

 

Given that the average person has a better understanding of food safety than efficient fire usage, I'd say that the Woodsure scheme will have little effect on improving burning practices or reducing emissions. 

 

 

I'm entirely in favour of electric vehicles and reducing domestic firewood usage. I say that as someone with a V10 Touareg and a 20kw stove. I can't wait until my car simply plugs in and I no longer have to feed a stove. 

 

However, legislating like this punishes the retailer who is fundamentally selling a sound product. There is no such thing as bad firewood. There is only firewood that is sufficiently dry and firewood that needs more drying time. The education and legislation needs to be targeted at the end user, not the retailer. 

 

Ban open fires, ban inefficient stoves, make flue pipe thermometers compulsory or even automatic vents to moderate air flow. Educate the end user and stop punishing the retailers for idiots that don't know how to use a fire or what to burn. 

Self adjusting stoves are in development by at least one of the UKs leading stove manufacturers.  Currently being trialled overseas.   Some small European manufacturers have tried the market them with very little uptake.  My own feeling is that anything electrical in close proximity to a stove is asking for trouble.

 

Good idea to ban open fires and old inefficient stoves but no way would the govt play ball on that, to much of a vote looser especially in the North.

 

a

[Woodworks]

8 minutes ago, Alycidon said:

Self adjusting stoves are in development by at least one of the UKs leading stove manufacturers.  Currently being trialled overseas.   Some small European manufacturers have tried the market them with very little uptake.  My own feeling is that anything electrical in close proximity to a stove is asking for trouble.

 

 

 

 

Surly they can be mechanically operated ? Made a mechanical thermostatic control for my charcoal retort that works very well and is very simple. For a stove some form of bimetal strip might be enough to operate an air vent

Edited August 27, 2021 by Woodworks

[openspaceman]

16 minutes ago, Woodworks said:

Surly they can be mechanically operated ? Made a mechanical thermostatic control for my charcoal retort that works very well and is very simple. For a stove some form of bimetal strip might be enough to operate an air vent

Yes but it's wide band oxygen sensors that are used to feedback  flue gas conditions and they operate by generating a voltage difference between the flue side and ambient air. Also  a crude wire with a current running through it coupled with a temperature sensor can distinguish differing exhaust gas content in much the same way an air mass flow device works in a car.

[neiln]

Plenty of big stoves in the US have a 'temperature control' the user sets and the stove operates the air controls via bimetallic strip.  I think they tend to be those that also have catalytic converters. Check out blaze king.  It's for ready of use though, load a big stove once a day, the controls give steady heat output and the catalyst keeps the gases clean.  All very convenient for the user, I'd love one!

[Alycidon]

2 hours ago, neiln said:

Plenty of big stoves in the US have a 'temperature control' the user sets and the stove operates the air controls via bimetallic strip.  I think they tend to be those that also have catalytic converters. Check out blaze king.  It's for ready of use though, load a big stove once a day, the controls give steady heat output and the catalyst keeps the gases clean.  All very convenient for the user, I'd love one!

That is I think the sort of thing thats being worked on,  but there are a whole raft of approvals to gain prior to it being marketed in the UK.   

 

A

[Stubby]

6 hours ago, neiln said:

Plenty of big stoves in the US have a 'temperature control' the user sets and the stove operates the air controls via bimetallic strip.  I think they tend to be those that also have catalytic converters. Check out blaze king.  It's for ready of use though, load a big stove once a day, the controls give steady heat output and the catalyst keeps the gases clean.  All very convenient for the user, I'd love one!

About 40 years ago I had a Parkray hopper fed stove . It was fed on anthracite beans . it had a bimetallic air control . You set it at a number ( 1-10 I think )  and when it got to the temp that corresponded with the number set it shut the air down . as the stove cooled it would open up again . Simple but worked .   

[neiln]

Exactly.  The auto control of the air is simple. Also, with the catalytic stoves the fire box can be rammed full of fuel and set to slumber, burning really long, the cat which is above the baffle kicks out most of the heat as it burns the smoke.

I just looked up the blaze king king, their biggest stove in 81% efficient, EPA compliant, 4.35cuft firebox that can be stuffed full of over 80lbs of wood. On low it kicks out 4.9kW for 40 hours.  Ok it's big, and overkill for many UK houses, in fact you'd probably need to be in some Scottish estate mansion to get close to the temps and house volume that it would work well in but they do have smaller stoves too.  I'd love to be able to get my days worth of wood from the stack, pack it straight in the firebox in one go, and not touch the stove again until the next day. However I can see they is not the market for stoves over here and can see why UK manufacturers don't have similar. Here is lots of small stoves for ambience, the blaze kings are 'wood heaters' and quite different. Although I have wondered how difficult and costly it would be for a UK manufacturer to partner up and become the UK importers.  I'm sure they would sell a few but I imagine the cost of testing for UK may be quite an outlay. My understanding is that our tests are the same as the US EPA, so they may accept the exciting certification perhaps.

 

[Vedhoggar]

3 hours ago, neiln said:

Exactly.  The auto control of the air is simple. Also, with the catalytic stoves the fire box can be rammed full of fuel and set to slumber, burning really long, the cat which is above the baffle kicks out most of the heat as it burns the smoke.

I just looked up the blaze king king, their biggest stove in 81% efficient, EPA compliant, 4.35cuft firebox that can be stuffed full of over 80lbs of wood. On low it kicks out 4.9kW for 40 hours.  Ok it's big, and overkill for many UK houses, in fact you'd probably need to be in some Scottish estate mansion to get close to the temps and house volume that it would work well in but they do have smaller stoves too.  I'd love to be able to get my days worth of wood from the stack, pack it straight in the firebox in one go, and not touch the stove again until the next day. However I can see they is not the market for stoves over here and can see why UK manufacturers don't have similar. Here is lots of small stoves for ambience, the blaze kings are 'wood heaters' and quite different. Although I have wondered how difficult and costly it would be for a UK manufacturer to partner up and become the UK importers.  I'm sure they would sell a few but I imagine the cost of testing for UK may be quite an outlay. My understanding is that our tests are the same as the US EPA, so they may accept the exciting certification perhaps.

 

The most efficient UK stove is the 2022 Burley Ecoelite range of stoves, designed, developed and made in England, they produced the only UK stove, three stage combustion with a catalytic converter, some models are 92% efficient, double glazed with temperature reaching 400-600C with no extra use of fuel - more heat and less woodfuel. They do 4kW-12kW stoves (burley.co.uk).

Edited August 29, 2021 by Vedhoggar