Can I do some extra freelance work for the company I work for?

[Mick Dempsey]

7 minutes ago, Mark Bolam said:

My insurance company know that I have no full time PAYE staff, but seem pretty happy to take my money every year for Employers Liability.

 

That would suggest to me that my freelancers are covered.

I’m pretty sure the law would see it like that as well, or I could do them for fraud.

Dunno Mark, unless you asked them directly I think ‘suggests’ doesn’t mean a lot.

 

[Mark Bolam]

Don’t worry Mick, I know they are covered.

Doesn’t matter really, I’m the only one likely to have a major cock-up!

 

 

[Mick Dempsey]

It says NO on the All Employees bit.

 

Me no understandee.

[headgroundsman]

I don't think you can be classed as self employed if you are doing the same work as you would as employed. You do not have the option to choose whether you are self employed or employed you need to meet some conditions. Check this out!  Check employment status for tax - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

[monkeybusiness]

Employers liability definitely covers labour-only subcontractors - that’s why it’s a legal requirement even if you don’t have any PAYE employees but take on work where you have other people working with you.

[eggsarascal]

1 minute ago, monkeybusiness said:

Employers liability definitely covers labour-only subcontractors - that’s why it’s a legal requirement even if you don’t have any PAYE employees but take on work where you have other people working with you.

Of course it does, what paddy is trying to say (if I'm reading him correctly) is, you being the boss could chase the freelancer who caused the damage for the money. Where this falls down is, the freelancer was working under your instruction, makes it all bets off I'm afraid.

[Mark Bolam]

4 minutes ago, Mick Dempsey said:

It says NO on the All Employees bit.

 

Me no understandee.

It says ‘No’ to ‘Are all employees paid under the PAYE threshold’.

 

[Paddy1000111]

2 hours ago, eggsarascal said:

Of course it does, what paddy is trying to say (if I'm reading him correctly) is, you being the boss could chase the freelancer who caused the damage for the money. Where this falls down is, the freelancer was working under your instruction, makes it all bets off I'm afraid.

It wouldn't be the first time this has happened though. What do you call "under your instruction" Are you telling him which bit of the branch to cut, how much to cut off, where to tie into, are you in the tree with him selecting anchor points for rigging, are you telling him what cuts to make? 

 

All I am saying to the guy wanting to freelance is to check his insurance position and not just assume. You may read the small print and there may be a whole bit in there about labour only subcontractors and what happens if it's caused by their negligence? You might be in charge but an on site boss isn't even necessarily a qualified tree surgeon and he sure as hell isn't babying him up there. What if your freelance climber selects a shit rigging point and it fails and a branch goes through the house? Is that your fault because your his boss? I sure wouldn't employ a freelancer that I had to tell exactly what to do in every little thing, may as well do it myself. 

 

I also think that after the IR35 reform a "labour only contractor" will, under law, have to be on PAYE. This is going to be a major shake up

[Mark Bolam]

Whose PAYE?

Some freelancers climb for tens of different companies.

 

If my freelancers cock up it’s still on me, and my insurance.

 

You might understand it all a bit better when you’ve got a few years under your harness, like most of the people on here you seem determined to argue with.

[Paddy1000111]

49 minutes ago, Mark Bolam said:

Whose PAYE?

Some freelancers climb for tens of different companies.

 

If my freelancers cock up it’s still on me, and my insurance.

 

You might understand it all a bit better when you’ve got a few years under your harness, like most of the people on here you seem determined to argue with.

Yea of course, because I have no experience...  I haven't worked as a freelancer/independent contractor for years, I haven't done a 5 year aviation course of which about 2 years focussed solely on law, safety, accountability and responsibility at work, I've not seen guys lose 6 figure sums of money through mistakes whilst freelancing, I've not seen guys get thrown under the IR35 bus before and have massive fines through back tax, I haven't spent the first half of this year fighting IR35 and in meetings with employment law specialists, I've not worked in an industry where a cock up WILL send me to jail, want me to keep going?

 

Sounds like you're experienced in that harness, nip those straps up tight before the reforms because you're going to be in for a rough ride if you mess up. HMRC don't take "I've done this for more years than you can shake a stick at" as an excuse, nor do insurance companies.

 

Before this turned into a 2 day brawl, my advice to the OP was to check his clients insurance and make sure that he is covered and there's nothing that can bite him in the arse. If he wants to take the advice of some guys online who tell him "Call yourself a "freelancer" and then you don't need insurance at all and you're not ever liable in any way for anything" then I'll PM him a good lawyer for when the bailiffs are at his door. There's a reason why insurance companies offer freelancer insurance and it's not because they want to double their income for something that isn't required.

 

At no point did I say that no insurance policy covers freelancers, nor did I say that everyone will be under IR35 (although anyone acting as an employee as a freelancer no matter how long or who they work for will be under it. Take a look at the public sector, you cannot freelance for a public body AT ALL). Everyone's situation is different but making generalisations and telling people that they don't need insurance if they call themselves X is a very dumb thing to do 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Paddy1000111