The inevitable tree too close to house on clay soil question

[BellaB]

Hello

I’m new here, and thanks in advance

I live in WSuffolk, it’s clay, we’re atop a hill, if that’s relevant.

2 story House, walls go down 1m deep, below which is concrete in trench.  (We needed soil taken away after an oil spill elsewhere, so I saw this)  No sign of subsidence.   Previously the whole estate was a pig farm.  Maybe the odd shelter here and there, maybe some shelter trees. It wasn’t woodland. 

 

It’s been standing about 22 yrs,  now surrounded by patio, with a lean-to kit built conservatory, which sits on concrete pads, will be demolished within a year or two, it’s in an appalling state!  To be replaced by patio I expect.
 

 Patio shields soil somewhat, It’s on a bed of mortar blobs and not well pointed. Some water may get through but not all. Prior to that going in 8 yrs ago it was gravel. Next door has an original patio laid as well, and the birch roots are lifting it nearest the tree.   Both houses about 5m distant. So we’ve had a request to do something about the tree. 
 

The original owners (probably) planted trees down the boundary,( I’m sure they don’t predate the houses,)and closest to the house is a silver birch, and then a Malus, then a palm, each about  2m apart. The birch is now taller than the house. Trunk about 30cm diameter  We topped it about 6-8yrs back and it rewarded us with a spurt of growth, and two trunks instead of one!

 

We've had a tree surgeon look at it, and he advises to take it out in one go. We’ve heard about heave and that worries us, but he dismissed the idea.  He actually said taking it down gradually would stimulate the roots to grow more. What do you think of that please?  We’ve already cut it back once, as I said. 
 

We chose him because he did a balanced and attractive job of thinning a neighbour’s young trees, but I don’t know his training. He said he wasn’t insured to give a guaranteed opinion, and to inquire further, and so I’ve found you in my search. Sorry pic is rotated. Don’t know how to fix that!

Can you help please?  Many thanks

Edited July 10, 2020 by BellaB

[monkeybusiness]

1 minute ago, Paul Cleaver said:

Hi Dan.

In an AA journal many yrs ago these 2 key points were mentioned and the conclusion was there should be no heave - period.  

Exactly. 

[Mark J]

6 minutes ago, Paul Cleaver said:

Hi Dan.

In an AA journal many yrs ago these 2 key points were mentioned and the conclusion was there should be no heave - period.  

Aye, heave occurs when there is a pre-existing soil moisture deficit at the time of build. There can be issues when trees are younger than the main house, but older than extensions/conservatories.
Without a self-serving sum of money, it's impossible to advise without all the site data.

[Paul Cleaver]

3 minutes ago, Mark J said:

Aye, heave occurs when there is a pre-existing soil moisture deficit at the time of build. There can be issues when trees are younger than the main house, but older than extensions/conservatories.
Without a self-serving sum of money, it's impossible to advise without all the site data.

Fair comment  

[daltontrees]

On 13/07/2020 at 21:31, monkeybusiness said:

Get it felled is still my advice - I’m certain that the cost of any consultancy involvement will be significantly more than the actual cost of removal.
 

A consultant might be able to advise that removal is not necessary if all that is wrong is damage to neighbour's patio. For local clients I charge £95 for a visit, verbal advice and a confirmatory letter. Felling costs saved. Tree saved. Relations with neighbour saved. Sleepless nights saved. Insurance premia saved.

[Stere]

But I got  impression the they just didn't want the tree so would prefer to remove  even if its doing no harm?

[BellaB]

Hi Guys

thank you again, this is very helpful, as you range to and fro, asking very pertinent questions. I getting the gist.  It may depend on my appetite for risk!

We don’t particularly want to take the tree out, but neither do we want the responsibility of its causing damage.  We could go for a partial removal and management if that would do the trick, and I think I see you don’t agree that pollarding will stimulate the roots  beyond what’s needed to support the needs of the (reduced) canopy. ie not.   But management is a future expense or effort, and we are getting into retirement years. There is some benefit to us to remove the tree if safe to do so.
 

so

I hope the risk of heave is low because:

   the site was probably well hydrated when the house was built. That seems the point to hang on to

   the conservatory was added that first year, to the best of my knowledge

   the tree was planted around then, or fairly soon after

but

more recently we laid a patio between the tree and our house, potentially changing the moisture content there. The tree didn’t appear to suffer from that but it can’t be getting the amount of rainfall it used to. 

My brain hurts now: that soil is now drier than previously, but the footings were built for/on a moister soil originally, so when the soil again rehydrates, we’re still ok? Is that right?  And we’ve not had shrinkage issues in the meantime, so that’s ok -

have I got that right?

In case we decide we do need a piece of paper for the files, 

Can anyone recommend a sensible soul in west Suffolk please?

 

thank you again, I do appreciate your responses

B

 

[Mark J]

7 hours ago, BellaB said:

Hi Guys

thank you again, this is very helpful, as you range to and fro, asking very pertinent questions. I getting the gist.  It may depend on my appetite for risk!

We don’t particularly want to take the tree out, but neither do we want the responsibility of its causing damage.  We could go for a partial removal and management if that would do the trick, and I think I see you don’t agree that pollarding will stimulate the roots  beyond what’s needed to support the needs of the (reduced) canopy. ie not.   But management is a future expense or effort, and we are getting into retirement years. There is some benefit to us to remove the tree if safe to do so.
 

so

I hope the risk of heave is low because:

   the site was probably well hydrated when the house was built. That seems the point to hang on to

   the conservatory was added that first year, to the best of my knowledge

   the tree was planted around then, or fairly soon after

but

more recently we laid a patio between the tree and our house, potentially changing the moisture content there. The tree didn’t appear to suffer from that but it can’t be getting the amount of rainfall it used to. 

My brain hurts now: that soil is now drier than previously, but the footings were built for/on a moister soil originally, so when the soil again rehydrates, we’re still ok? Is that right?  And we’ve not had shrinkage issues in the meantime, so that’s ok -

have I got that right?

In case we decide we do need a piece of paper for the files, 

Can anyone recommend a sensible soul in west Suffolk please?

 

thank you again, I do appreciate your responses

B

 

You should probably get someone in for a look. Too many variables to consider online.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

2 hours ago, Mark J said:

You should probably get someone in for a look. Too many variables to consider online.

@eggsarascal - go give it a good ‘looking at’ Egger!

[eggsarascal]

10 minutes ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

@eggsarascal - go give it a good ‘looking at’ Egger!

Ya like that one, don't ya.

 

Are you up to the outlaws?  I'm away Monday.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

1 hour ago, eggsarascal said:

Ya like that one, don't ya.

 

Are you up to the outlaws?  I'm away Monday.

Not looking like it mucker, theme still hunkered down like VC at the Battle of Khe Sanh!