Twin Rope Hazard (Self Rescue)

[Jake Andrews]

But that’s not the point. It COULD happen. Your current system prevents you from self rescuing efficiently. We should be prepared and have systems for all scenarios, which IMO we are not trained for. Who hear believes that their CS38 training has prepared them for a complex rescue situation? Not mine. I’d be happy if my victim was hanging under a branch with suitable anchors for me to descend with them.

 

Oh............... are we back to poor training again[emoji848]

 

[Bolt]

1 hour ago, Jake Andrews said:

But that’s not the point. It COULD happen.

 

How ridiculous.  
 

If one long rope got cut as I chainsawed my arm, it is highly likely the other long rope got compromised as well.

 

If you were anymore risk averse, you would be proposing that we have an additional emergency kit safely stashed on our belt, just in case.

 

 

 

Our occupational health and safety system is based on the Health and Safety Act, which requires a reasonablity aspect to be used when planning and preparing for work.

 

A lump of Ice could strike a climber on the head whilst working, or an escaped polar bear from the zoo could maul the groundsman, but no one would reasonably expect an employer to take this into account, would they?

 

It’s just not reasonable.

[Bolt]

2 hours ago, Jake Andrews said:

We should be prepared and have systems for all scenarios,

ALL scenarios!

 

Of the incidents I’ve investigated, the best rescues involved a MEWP.

 

If you REALLY think that “We should be prepared and have systems for all scenarios,” then it looks like there should be emergency-evac spider MEWPS in every site then.

 

Nice.

[Bolt]

2 hours ago, Jake Andrews said:

 Your current system prevents you from self rescuing efficiently..... 

 

Who hear believes that their CS38 training has prepared them for a complex rescue situation? Not mine. 

 

So you advocate MRT working where there are two ropes attached to the climber at all times (possibly adding to the complexity of the current system and it’s management) and then you say the current training is inadequate anyway.

 

Your approach seems slightly contradictory.

 

I hope you are not employed in a role that requires you to hand out h+s advice, or write company policy!

[Bolt]

2 hours ago, Jake Andrews said:

 

 

Oh............... are we back to poor training again

 

Do I spy an agenda here?

 

Maybe you have an SRT agenda....  maybe your agenda involves training....

 

 

 

 

[Bing!]

I think the general point is "Educate, not regulate".

The incidents and accidents that HSE are basing this on could be reduced with a more stringent method of training, logged hours and regular re assessments. Instead they have gone for enforcement of a new system but no extra training or assessments required. The unfortunate folk caught up in the stats would still probably have had the accidents (maybe generalizing to make my points).

 

If the arb industry want to head this off before its fully enshrined then we need to offer up our own solution, that IMHO would be a change to the training and continue on throughout your career with regular refreshers and assessments.

[Khriss]

@Bolt hehe no moss growing on you. I am sick of speaking of this / organising it etc. Just telling the guys to 2Rope trees ( with their new rope!) an aerial rescue kit at base of tree assembled ( and in their tree if poss') My Scuba training also tells me that 'panic situations'  will produce odd behaviour in the casualty. So regardless of the above - an it is all valid! No one really knows what will happen. K

[Stubby]

5 minutes ago, Khriss said:

@Bolt hehe no moss growing on you. I am sick of speaking of this / organising it etc. Just telling the guys to 2Rope trees ( with their new rope!) an aerial rescue kit at base of tree assembled ( and in their tree if poss') My Scuba training also tells me that 'panic situations'  will produce odd behaviour in the casualty. So regardless of the above - an it is all valid! No one really knows what will happen. K

I am going to use 2 mowers to cut the grass next spring , just in case you know .

[PDizzle]

So all the nitpicking around legislation aside what is this actually for? Is it so the insurance companies don't have to pay out if you didn't have a second line installed?
Experienced climbers have been climbing for years without incident and as far as I'm aware the best way of preventing falling out the tree is to just not cut your rope. Take your time and think about what you're doing before you do it. If there's a risk to cutting your mainline, rethink and reposition. This twinline nonsense will cause more accidents than it prevents.

/my2cents

[naturarbo]

On 21/12/2019 at 20:01, Rich Rule said:

Yes, it matters?

 

or 
 

Yes, you are based in Portugal?

 

Either way, as ridiculous as the new guidelines are I don’t think you have anything to worry about.

yes Im based in Portugal