Two-rope Working - an update

[Paul201t]

This two rope system will highlight the climbers who’s never bother to learn about better climbing systems and self educate themselves in climbing techniques and the advantages of using more advanced hitch’s, I know a couple of climbers who are still climbing on the original prussik they was taught on in college purely because they’ve never bothered to do any research outside work hours. Not sure how their going to cope keep having to push two prussiks up after every hip thrust. But then they don’t hardly use a second tie in lanyard/strop when cutting so my bet is they won’t bother with a second line which is why we’ve had this two line system thrown at us. I think rescue can still be done with one line. That’s what AA have said anyway.

[Arboricultured]

What Im getting at is this pre set line thing....even if the tree is coming down. Is this being taught as a 'must' now ?

I am not sure that it was insisted upon as law but by the lack of being taught to access by spurring, it was implied. Good point though, I expect it has not been specified, yet. I am happy to be put straight by someone more informed though if I am wrong.

[Gray git]

Conspiracy theory me is thinking was this sponsored by some equipment manufacturers to make us spend double on gear...
As said the guy who is more likely to be the one having the accident is more likely to be the one blissfully unaware of all this and all the paper pushers are doing is making it easier for him to win his work by being cheaper than the company actually ticking all these boxes.
Round us we have a lot of ex army lads setting up there own businesses after doing 8 weeks off ticket collecting with no experience and taking on stuff way beyond their compatency level and with bairly enough gear to get the job done, these are who are adding to the statistics.

My opinion is the arb association will fail to represent the industry against this as a whole as it will be in there own interest to make it as hard for small companies to operate as this will put there approved contractors in a better position to complete so keep up paying into the scheme and ultimately secure there own position. - think that made sense [emoji848]

[Pete Mctree]

agreed, especially with regards to kit supply & training also. For once though I have to stick up for the Arb association- they have at least negotiated some common sense into the risk assessment. Shame they did not get there shit together years ago to quash all this.

[MattyF]

Some one posted on Arb talk face book about a well known supposed Arb leader has been fine tuning his training courses for the two rope enforcement for some time , isn’t it a coincidence that all the old boy Arb network will be rinsing the benefits of all this new training ... absolute joke.
I’m out , seriously this should not be forgotten and we need to boycott these organisations.. enough is enough.

[Marc Lewis]

Remember, it is not because anyone cares for your well being, it is to make sure everyones arse is covered if the worst should happen. Organisations and companies do not want to pay out compensation or be sued.

[MattyF]

This is not making the job safer ,it’s a massive hinderance with so much more potential to add risks it’s just ridiculous, as for the statement that we expect people to add more money to jobs, what about people who have priced work and have months of work in the books already , I can’t turn around and give all my clients that I have work lined up for a higher quote because it’s probably going to add at least another two hours to most jobs or can I expect my climbers or ground staff for that matter to manage a minimum of three ropes ,4-5 in the case of rigging dismantles...at this point in the year with weather and light conditions bad it is already a struggle with out 5 ropes getting dragged and tangled around a rigging job.

[patrickgalloway3]

As an individual who does a mixture of tree work and IRATA rope access work it is perhaps time for a change. Rope access companies can work to British standards which are generally a lower level of training and competency than IRATA. Tree surgery has managed to stay incredibly unregulated for a long time. I have to renew my level 3 IRATA competency every 3years. I did my nptc38 and 39 in 2000 and as far as I am aware it is still valid. If the industry wants to be taken seriously continued training and assessment should be incouraged. 

[Jamie Jones]

20 hours ago, Paul201t said:

This two rope system will highlight the climbers who’s never bother to learn about better climbing systems and self educate themselves in climbing techniques and the advantages of using more advanced hitch’s, I know a couple of climbers who are still climbing on the original prussik they was taught on in college purely because they’ve never bothered to do any research outside work hours. Not sure how their going to cope keep having to push two prussiks up after every hip thrust. But then they don’t hardly use a second tie in lanyard/strop when cutting so my bet is they won’t bother with a second line which is why we’ve had this two line system thrown at us. I think rescue can still be done with one line. That’s what AA have said anyway.

Bit of a sweeping statement that.

In fairness even prussiks with a tending pulley are used in climbing championships that I have seen on youtube. Some times the old or simplest method can still be the best. That is the beauty of having choice... You get to choose what is right for you.

I am fairly new to tree climbing (Some previous experience of rock climbing) and of an older age... So if they is a gizmo that will save wear & tear or fatigue on my body then I will spend the extra... But If you are in the tree and you are having a change of plan you can implement the traditional methods if your desired item is still in your kitbag back on the ground.

Don't knock the traditional methods as the more complicated and technical you get the more opportunity there is for some thing to go wrong.

Often Less Can Be More...

[Jamie Jones]

12 minutes ago, patrickgalloway3 said:

As an individual who does a mixture of tree work and IRATA rope access work it is perhaps time for a change. Rope access companies can work to British standards which are generally a lower level of training and competency than IRATA. Tree surgery has managed to stay incredibly unregulated for a long time. I have to renew my level 3 IRATA competency every 3years. I did my nptc38 and 39 in 2000 and as far as I am aware it is still valid. If the industry wants to be taken seriously continued training and assessment should be incouraged. 

I am sorry but I am not thick enough to need retraining every three years. If training companies want to do training on updated regulation aspects when there is big changes like what is being proposed then I would take advantage of that.

But in the last year in have had to go from competent to qualified for many aspects of my business I now have over 20x NPTC City & Guilds qualifications. If I had to renew them at cost inc VAT every three years this would cost me over £ 8,000 and take out 3x months of working days.  Sorry but this is unfeasable when self employed.

Lets be clear I don't  forget how to use a back pack blower, a walk behind mower, a ride on mower, a chipper, a chainsaw etc. If you are struggling and have the money to burn, or your forgetful then please feel free to redo all your tickets especially if you are paying for them.

I don't mind redoing First Aid as new stuff is always coming out and the more practice you have the better as you don't actually practice this in any way unless there is an incident.

Also on a cost basis it might be easier to add these costs and loss of earning if you are in affluent areas with minimal competition. But for those of us who are not price is always a major issue and many people simply can't afford this.

 

Edited December 1, 2019 by Jamie Jones
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