Background to the HSE decision on two rope working

[benedmonds]

4 hours ago, scotspine1 said:

Demonstration day: 10 June 2019

We set up a demonstration day at Stoneleigh Deer Park Golf Club, Coventry, on 10 June. The following were present:

• Simon Richmond, Senior Technical Officer, AA
• Chris Cooper-Abbs, lead author for TG1
• Matt Brooker, author for TG1 and demonstration climber
• Ben Rose, demonstration climber and SRT expert
• Jo Hedger, demonstration climber and world tree climbing champion
• John Trenchard, tree climbing trainer/assessor and representative for Lantra Awards
• Rob Blake, tree climbing trainer/assessor and representative for C&G NPTC

At least 5 of the 7 are Arbtalk  members (if not active posters..) would be nice if they could comment.. Rather then leaving it for Paul to take the flack.. 

[Mark Bolam]

What's your take on all this @BenR?

[dumper]

So it looks like they climbed up a tree branch walked maybe then came down and went for a pint. Was any real work carried out, seems there were no groundies managing the ropes and the rigging down of the branches cut.i think the video and photos should be published,

the AA is meant to represent the industry so just what do you get for your subscription?

they should make it widely known that they do not agree with the HSE therefore bringing into question the approved code of practise. It would then need to be revised 

[dumper]

I would also like to see mr Paul McCann qualifications in arboriculture to enable him to comment on the techniques used, I would take a large bet he has never climbed a tree 

[Mick Dempsey]

10 minutes ago, dumper said:

I would also like to see mr Paul McCann qualifications in arboriculture to enable him to comment on the techniques used, I would take a large bet he has never climbed a tree 

I reckon you'd lose your money.

[dumper]

7 minutes ago, Mick Dempsey said:

I reckon you'd lose your money.

Maybe but my experience of the HSE recently, I had an inspection last week was they were removed from the real world, they had read the books,watched the videos, and got piles of qualifications and courses But no real world work experience they had not done a real job since leaving university

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

2 hours ago, dumper said:

the AA is meant to represent the industry so just what do you get for your subscription?

they should make it widely known that they do not agree with the HSE therefore bringing into question the approved code of practise. It would then need to be revised 

The team did extensive demonstrations of current climbing techniques, including access / descent and a work climb, in effect, to HSE to show that what we do currently, provided employed correctly, is safe and effective...but they disagreed and insisted on a default position employing 2 ropes, particularly for SRT/SRWP. The ICoP (Industry Code of Practice) is currently being re-written to take account of the changes...albeit not as you would like  

 

PS You lost me with the reference to Paul McAnn. If that is meant to be me, Paul Smith (and not the other ARBTALK'er with the same name, sorry) then I have climbed, albeit some considerable time ago, and hence my quals are the old 20, 21, 22 suit of NPTCs    

[Khriss]

@AA Teccie (Paul) and @scotspine1 and now I find I am in the same boat with this matter, got to do Demonstration of Safe Tree Works Practises in Rail in three weeks time to our Client....when I get date I will let you know. This is all grist to the mill. K

[dumper]

4 minutes ago, AA Teccie (Paul) said:

The team did extensive demonstrations of current climbing techniques, including access / descent and a work climb, in effect, to HSE to show that what we do currently, provided employed correctly, is safe and effective...but they disagreed and insisted on a default position employing 2 ropes, particularly for SRT/SRWP. The ICoP (Industry Code of Practice) is currently being re-written to take account of the changes...albeit not as you would like  

 

PS You lost me with the reference to Paul McAnn. If that is meant to be me, Paul Smith (and not the other ARBTALK'er with the same name, sorry) then I have climbed, albeit some considerable time ago, and hence my quals are the old 20, 21, 22 suit of NPTCs    

Spell check got me I was referencing the HSE working at height specialist not yourself.

as a matter of interest was a chainsaw used during the demo ? How many branches were brought down did they free fall or were they rigged it could hardly be a reasonable demonstration of our working practises if this did not happen, 

[BenR]

Hello ladies and gents of Arbtalk.. I'm not going to claim to have read everything in this thread but what I will do is explain my involvement in the process. 

 

I was asked by the AA to attend said meeting to demonstrate SRT climbing techniques on one rope and two ropes, which I did and I had hoped that some sort of middle ground might have been found whereby people were advised to climb on two rope when reasonably practicable and otherwise continue as before. Alas the decision making process is nothing to do with me and we are now looking down the barrel of two ropes at all times. Whilst this isn't always practical I don't think anyone can argue that it will make us a safer industry... 

 

Trying to find some positive out of this: I can only hope that this new legislation helps to make the difference between professionals and people on the ladders with the poly pro rope and pole saw all the more clear. 

 

What would be great is if we could get outselves organised to the stage where as tree workers we need to be accredited to do the work and those that are not accredited simply cannot practise the job.

 

You wouldn't get a gas engineer that's not corgi registered would you?