Top-handled chainsaws: appropriate use and management

[Mick Dempsey]

I did a job for them recently (let’s assume I was in the UK)

 

Reduction of a Horse Chestnut, some tricky lowering etc. Now, they sent a fella along to help out, drag brush etc, mostly just so it looked like they were involved as it was a client for whom they had an ongoing maintenance contract.

 

Accident/injury who’s liable? And does the fact that they have a genuine employee there change it?

 

 

[Ratman]

Yes, all liabilities to him.

[Jcarbor]

I did a job for them recently (let’s assume I was in the UK)

 

Reduction of a Horse Chestnut, some tricky lowering etc. Now, they sent a fella along to help out, drag brush etc, mostly just so it looked like they were involved as it was a client for whom they had an ongoing maintenance contract.

 

Accident/injury who’s liable? And does the fact that they have a genuine employee there change it?

 

 

? I’m not quite understanding your question,The person who employed him is. If you employ someone to work directly under your companies supervision then you are liable for their safety and well being. At the lowest base level its the correct thing to do and provide. We have youngsters from college working for us regularly its only right that you provide for all staffs needs and well being.

[Mark Bolam]

That’s trickier though.

The dragger is an employee of the company, but he’s working for Mick on the day.

Whose EL if he gets injured? Mick’s or the main contractors?

On the plus side he’s definitely insured by someone!

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

52 minutes ago, Jcarbor said:

Paul if this lad was providing labour only then it as plain as day, the idiot employing him should have the appropriate ELI in place.

Its shocking that irresponsible employers like this get away with this behaviour. (Jim Jc trees.)

 

I agree, entirely, but many of us are speaking morally and responsibly here, and rightly so, but the guidance as to when is a subcontractor effectively an employee, as far as EL insurance is concerned, is open to interpretation / challenge.

I guess the acid test, perhaps, wuddav been to report the accident under RIDDOR and hope the HSE investigated the matter. 

Cheers Jim, hope you're well (n Jo.)

Paul

 

[Conor Wright]

Some interesting points here, take for example a situation such as mine, I'm a sole trader, no el. I bring in a se climber to do what I cannot, he invoices me as he was contacted.by me.regarding the job, I then pass on this invoice plus mine to the client (I don't make any extra on the climber, just pass on the cost) I also never expect the climber/s to do anything against their will e.g. go up without spikes or push to finish a job ahead of time.. ie. Im not "telling them what to do" who is liable if he/she has an accident in the tree..?

[Ratman]

That’s trickier though.
The dragger is an employee of the company, but he’s working for Mick on the day.
Whose EL if he gets injured? Mick’s or the main contractors?
On the plus side he’s definitely insured by someone!

Micks employer i would say mark, (same guy who sent the labourer)

[Ratman]

Some interesting points here, take for example a situation such as mine, I'm a sole trader, no el. I bring in a se climber to do what I cannot, he invoices me as he was contacted.by me.regarding the job, I then pass on this invoice plus mine to the client (I don't make any extra on the climber, just pass on the cost) I also never expect the climber/s to do anything against their will e.g. go up without spikes or push to finish a job ahead of time.. ie. Im not "telling them what to do" who is liable if he/she has an accident in the tree..?

You would be liable Conor, cos you are the point of contact and direct employee of the client, even if your not doing the job yourself, hence you’ve subbed it out. You should really have EL.

[john p]

If they’re climbing for me and the shit hits the fan Mick, they would be covered by my EL.
There is no grey area at all.

Boom, that’s how I roll!

[Mark Bolam]

Let’s hope we never find out!

Bottom line is, if you’ve got anyone working for you, freelance or not, you need EL.