The beauty of the Tax System

[trigger_andy]

4 minutes ago, AHPP said:

 

If you want stuff, you can buy it. If enough people want it, someone will be there to sell it to you. And you’ll have shitloads of money to spend.

And am I fuck a communist! I’m a middle ground libertarian.

 

That is laughable in the extreme, on so many levels and for so many reasons not worth arguing about. The fact is you have no solution at all. You seem happy making use of everything tax pays for yet do not wish to pay for it.

 

I have no idea what a ' middle ground libertarian' is, sounds like a Pinko Commie to me though. Although your vague ideas are firmly Capitalist. I think you're just confused.  

Edited January 15, 2019 by trigger_andy

[difflock]

 

I would rather see one flat rate income tax, with say a 25k income before contributing, and a higher VAT rate (which will be equally paid by benefit claimants and by those working in the black and criminal economies), with no exemptions for childrens clothing, carry out food and other potential loopholes.

Plus a return to the Property Vote, if rates, particularily commercial rates are going to remain to be so high.

The obverse of the "no taxation without representation" if you like.

Also anonomised & published true costs for the costs of keeping the most expensive in benefits problem families.

Or a benefit cap, regardless of the number of brats fathered by multiple temporary fathers.

It would be truely eye-opening.

mth

 

Edited January 15, 2019 by difflock

[Ratman]

How about the injustice of IHT! 
 
You worked hard and pay all your taxes your whole life and end up with a nice nest egg which you would like to pass onto your kids but no the government wants a chunk of that as well and for what, dying?  If you blow the whole lot that's fine but carefully saving is penalised.

Not that you ultimately know when your gona kark it, but you can gift it to them, 7 yrs to avoid the tax though.
Or invest it in a trust fund for them and stipulate it in ya will that it goes to them. Not sure fully how it works but i believe it is a way round it, a good financial advisor may be your best bet for that though.

[AHPP]

That is laughable in the extreme, on so many levels and for so many reasons not worth arguing about. The fact is you have no solution at all. You seem happy making use of everything tax pays for yet do not wish to pay for it.
 
I have no idea what a ' middle ground libertarian' is, sounds like a Pinko Commie to me though. Although your vague ideas are firmly Capitalist. I think you're just confused. [emoji3] 

You might laugh but that’s possibly because you don’t understand what I’m talking about and can’t be bothered to research it. I pretty diligently avoid things paid for by taxation (and I’ve no idea what made you assert otherwise) and the nature of my philosophical and political ideology is that I don’t need to know the answers to everything because a lot of stuff simply isn’t any of my business. I just recognise that people are best sorting their own needs out rather than being stolen from and then provided with what other people think they need.

[trigger_andy]

Just now, AHPP said:

You might laugh but that’s possibly because you don’t understand what I’m talking about and can’t be bothered to research it. I pretty diligently avoid things paid for by taxation (and I’ve no idea what made you assert otherwise) and the nature of my philosophical and political ideology is that I don’t need to know the answers to everything because a lot of stuff simply isn’t any of my business. I just recognise that people are best sorting their own needs out rather than being stolen from and then provided with what other people think they need.

Research what? You've not given a singe example to look into. 

 

So you avoided School did you? If you have kids did you home school them? Do you intend to use the NHS? You avoid Roadsd and Pathways? You choose not to get your bins emptied? Seems like you just pick and choose what you wish to claim you use. Id be interested to see the list of things you avoid. It would make for some interesting reading. 

 

Of course you dont need to know the answers to everything, but its clear you dont have then answer to a single thing.   Its just pure waffle. All you've got is 'tax is evil'. 

[AHPP]

Research what? You've not given a singe example to look into. 
 
So you avoided School did you? If you have kids did you home school them? Do you intend to use the NHS? You avoid Roadsd and Pathways? You choose not to get your bins emptied? Seems like you just pick and choose what you wish to claim you use. Id be interested to see the list of things you avoid. It would make for some interesting reading. 
 
Of course you dont need to know the answers to everything, but its clear you dont have then answer to a single thing. [emoji3]  Its just pure waffle. All you've got is 'tax is evil'. 

You could perhaps begin by familiarising yourself with the political landscape. You don’t understand the difference between authoritarianism (communism is an authoritarian doctrine) and libertarianism (which is the opposite).
Education, healthcare, roads, bin collection etc. All possible without government. I do most of that. And, respectfully, you’ve said twice now that I ‘pick and choose’ or am otherwise ideologically hypocritical. I don’t, I’m not and you’ve had no reason to think otherwise. Don’t invent things to try and help your argument. It’s undermining it.
I’m perfectly happy to spend time sharing ideas on how to live freer and better but only with open minded people.

Were you in the army by any chance?

[openspaceman]

3 hours ago, Rob D said:

mean when you think on it it's a beautiful system - ref VAT not only do we have to pay back the gov the surplus tax - we have to collect this for them and also calculate it for them ie. it costs us time and money to do what is in effect their job. And then send them the money!

It's a good rant but please correct me if I am wrong; isn't VAT the spawn of the common market? Prior to that we had various forms of purchase tax which were far more pragmatic as they were taxed at the point of production. In a global economy that favours large multinationals it must be easier to levy a tax on a few big companies rather than having to police every small producer.

[trigger_andy]

11 minutes ago, AHPP said:

 

You could perhaps begin by familiarising yourself with the political landscape. You don’t understand the difference between authoritarianism (communism is an authoritarian doctrine) and libertarianism (which is the opposite).
Education, healthcare, roads, bin collection etc. All possible without government. I do most of that. And, respectfully, you’ve said twice now that I ‘pick and choose’ or am otherwise ideologically hypocritical. I don’t, I’m not and you’ve had no reason to think otherwise. Don’t invent things to try and help your argument. It’s undermining it.
I’m perfectly happy to spend time sharing ideas on how to live freer and better but only with open minded people.

Were you in the army by any chance?

 

Im familiar with the political landscape and can easily distinguish between authoritarianism and libertarianism, your posting seems to indicate you struggle with the concepts though. The only alternative to tax you're posted is paying for what you use. That sounds much more like a Capitalist view point than say a libertarian one, it also indicates that if you have no means of paying for a service then you're screwed. As much as I hate paying the amount of Tax I do I understand that there is no other way to fund all the services we take for granted. 

 

So please, educate me on how you think these services could be funded without taxation? As far as I can see that would be indentured service and then we're back to being Commies. Socialism clearly does not work either and that relies heavily on tax. 

 

You stated ' I pretty diligently avoid things paid for by taxation' you've not expalined what that means? Im my opinion its picking and choosing, but please correct nem if Im wrong.

 

You are inventing things, as you've not got an even slightly viable answer to any of my questions, you just spout ideology with not factual backing or empirical evidence of it working anywhere on earth. 

 

No, Ive never been in the Army. But Im not a head in the clouds kind of person who dreams up the fantasies you seem to believe in. Tax is a fact of life and always will be. Your utopia is my idea of hell and Ive love to see you post an example of where its every worked. 

[westphalian]

higher rate tax rate countries tend to have higher standards of living.

I holidayed, nah, vacationed, in New England recently, and the infrastructure was third world.

I have also holidayed in Sweden and Finland and wow, your high tax rate pays for a lot

[trigger_andy]

1 minute ago, westphalian said:

higher rate tax rate countries tend to have higher standards of living.

I holidayed, nah, vacationed, in New England recently, and the infrastructure was third world.

I have also holidayed in Sweden and Finland and wow, your high tax rate pays for a lot

I agree, and the tax system in Scandinavia, Norway at least is far more balanced. So although the tax is high its spread over the population more evenly. The thing is I pay my tax to Norway yet Im at the threshold of paying the difference to Scotland. selective socialism like we have in Scotland is a disgrace.