Councils undertaking tree work

[Sheepy]

Shouldn’t be allowed, end of discussion in my opinion. Tax payer bought kit, access to TO’s, level of perceived trustworthy ness that isn’t fairly gained, ability to gain backhanders off rate payer gear and training, killing off of smaller firms ect.. so much wrong with it, they should stick to council/government owned properties and interests only. There’d be a almighty stink if one of us go caught paying off the tree officer and I don’t see how their situation is any different. Most council workers want to do the minimum possible, there not in it for the sky high pay, to me that says some jobs going through cash ect.

[Mesterh]

11 hours ago, benedmonds said:

Council run tree gangs working on non council trees to make the council money should have a huge competitive advantage. Their advertising powers are going to dwarf all but the biggest tree firms and access to TO's would take the will they won't they out of applying for TPO works. Their potential access to a huge range of kit from the council fleet, access to other staff and teams, the ability to tag works onto other contracts and always having there own works as a back up also a massive advantage.  Not to mention the back office support..

 

They also have a huge disadvantage, they are being run by council employees and are therefore restrained in many other ways.....  Instinct tells me that the bureaucracy and lack of drive is going to make them less efficient then a commercial outfit so they will have to charge a decent rate. 

 

If that is the case then it's not so bad.. 

 

 

It would be interesting to get an idea of their rates when quoting for private work. I would imagine they could provide a very cheap quote as surely all their overheads have already been paid by the tax payer.

 

 

[Craig Johnson]

what most council forget is that their rechargeable rate (internal) is not the same as the true chargeable rates and doing so is fraud, the council subsidising private tree work for the benefit

of an individual  

[Stere]

Wouldn't surprise me if some of the private jobs they do are priced cheap for friends relatives people in other council departments etc and equipment used is trashed/uncared for because they can just buy another one......

 

 

[stihlmadasever]

10 hours ago, WesD said:

I think @stihlmadasever may be able to offer some insight into this thread. 

 

 

Cheers wes.

Ok so as i dont have any experience of this first hand so i can only offer an opinion from the perspective of a council climber.

The simple fact is councils have been subjected too massive cuts and it was only a matter of time before some recognised the merits in earning extra revenue through bidding for private contracts.

My own council have been bidding in contracts or has vested interests in non profit/charity companies for a while but wont at this point concider tree works in that catagory.

My own thoughts on this are councils have been and still are poorly run and until this is addressed then councils will find ways of earning extra revenue too prop up a crumbling system.

Councils should either A tender all work out to contractors or B keep a work in house as i think doing a little bit of both is unfair on local firms.

Sime things said above id like to address.

Councils dont have a huge budget to advertise,most ciuncils set an annual budget for each outlay and stick too it religiously,i doubt advertising would be deemed important enough to receive funds.

Working for the council i know how difficult it is to get permission from planning to work on TPO'd trees,infact contractors notice of intent of works are prioritised before our own.

Its just blatantly wrong to conclude all council workers are work shy bastards,unmotivated and lacking in  conscience.

Finally we dont have access to huge amounts of kit,unfortunatly,the office monkeys would rather hire in equipment than invest in our own.

Just opinions and thoughts from a council tree guy...

Edited September 6, 2018 by stihlmadasever

[Anno]

OK, if I may, as a Council TO and the person who runs the operational Arb Team, this is something that worries me. My first comment would be how do they get the time with all the day to day crap that comes in?

I have a regular series of third party contractors that I call on for both Emergency out of hours work and 'bigger' contracts and I personally think that is an important part of what we do as a Local Authority - boosting local economy.

In terms of budgets I am in the position of managing a tree team that needs new blood, owing to the age of my climbers and the wages we can offer most well trained ticketed experienced guys wont  get out of bed for! 

 

Its easy to be critical of LA's and Councils but try working in one under the current restrictions and you may change your mind?

[stihlmadasever]

32 minutes ago, Anno said:

 

In terms of budgets I am in the position of managing a tree team that needs new blood, owing to the age of my climbers and the wages we can offer most well trained ticketed experienced guys wont  get out of bed for! 

 

 

 

Completly sympathise with this.

Our guys are all over 40 with various ailments and issues but no one wants to join our squad due to our workload, work ethic, the nature of our job and wage structure.

Imo its only a matter of time before our work is put out to tender.

 

 

[Mark Bolam]

The only time I can see it being remotely acceptable is if every single bit of council tree work has been completed and blokes would literally be sat around with nothing to do if they didn't tender for private jobs.

[WesD]

Thanks @stihlmadasever 

 

In my area I know a few ex council guys and they state it’s harder to get apps looked at and passed for them than the local private firms by the TO. 

 

Also our council guys are using rentakit and most of them who are decent are as you say 40+ and sadly institutionalised. 

 

People need to be careful what they wish for Sheffield as an example contracted everything out and we all know how that’s turned out. 

 

My opinion FWIW, if your determined to succeed and have the skill set to do so (if your shit your shit?) you will! 

 

[Gary Prentice]

10 hours ago, Anno said:

Its easy to be critical of LA's and Councils but try working in one under the current restrictions and you may change your mind?

I do try not to be critical of the LA as a whole and save my focus for the individuals whose ineptitude and efficiency cause me problems. In the current fiscal climate you couldn't pay me enough to be a TO, it's not worth the aggro. I actually admire the dedicated tree officers who are reasonable, helpful and even pragmatic that assist me to do my own job. In their position I think that I would have thrown in the towel a long while back.