Potus ???

[Luckyeleven]

Its funny because its true...

[Vespasian]

Have you read Hermann Hess' Beneath The Wheel Vesp?

 

Jomoco

 

No, though I have just looked it up, sounds like a fascinating read.. I might see if its available on audio books..

[Vespasian]

Its funny because its true...

 

Ah but, its a legal immigrant.....

[agg221]

Earlier on you were saying there would be "issues" if there millions of migrants in the UK. You now think 8 millions migrants are OK. You're hardly consistent.....

 

I believe there were 10,000 migrants at Calais wanting to get to the UK. There are also millions of people in Libya etc wanting to get to Europe. I would consider that "massing hordes at the borders".

 

So Muslims that have been born and raised in the UK plan to attack the UK and that's OK? Does that not show that they are not integrating? Surely the sensible thing to do would be to stop Muslim immigration?

 

How do you know what the Muslim community think of terrorism? Have you ever seen Muslims protest against the terrorists after an attack? My brother had a job that involved going to a lot of takeaways, after 9/11 he said a lot of them had posters of Osama Bin Laden in the back rooms. Does that sound like they were condemning killing 3,000 yanks?

 

If Muslims condemn terrorism so much how come places like Afghanistan/ Somalia/ Iraq/ Pakistan/ Nigeria etc are such violent places? How come minority groups in places like Egypt are persecuted? Surely the "vast majority" of peaceful Muslims could control the "small proportion" of extremists?

 

There would be issues if millions turned up at once. Spread over 70+ yrs, rather less so. It also occurred to me that there will still be a few survivors from the Kindertransport in that number.

 

There are now effectively no people in Calais since the Jungle was demolished and I don't really class Libya as our border. It's rather a long way from here. Yes - there are people there who would like to be here. Our border controls seem to be fairly effective as they currently stand at separating refugees from economic migrants. We also don't seem to have massing hordes of European immigrants on our borders (mainly because they could come straight in if they wanted to - they just don't want to).

 

Muslims born in the UK wishing to attack it is not OK - see previous post. The problem is, there is less we can do about it. However it is a fraction of a percentage of second and third generation Muslims who are being radicalised, not the immigrants. No idea whether you have grandchildren but if you do, how accountable do you feel you are for their actions? Discrimination against Muslims in case their grandchildren happen to be the tiny percentage who end up being radicalised is hardly reasonable. Far better to try to understand the causes and address them.

 

Muslim leader speaking out against terrorist acts, not very hard to find:

 

Statements by Muslim leaders condemning terrorism

Islamic Statements Against Terrorism – Charles Kurzman

Paris Attacks: Muslims Speak Out Against Terrorism

 

You can find hundreds more if you want.

 

It also aligns with my personal experience of Muslim colleagues. It sounds very patronising to write this, but they are without exception peaceable, deep-thinking and integrated. With quite a few of them, I haven't actually realised they are practising Muslims until some chance remark, sometimes after having known them for years. There is no real difference between the Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, Jews or Christians I know (except that possibly the Christians are more pushy about it).

 

It is true that not all Muslims are integrated. It is not true that no Muslims are integrated. Sweeping generalisations are neither accurate nor helpful.

 

Alec

[jomoco]

No, though I have just looked it up, sounds like a fascinating read.. I might see if its available on audio books..

 

You'll find it a good analogy of our 21st century plight, written over a hundred years ago mate!

 

The moral of the story's all the academic acumen in the world's useless unless it's put to a practical end use that's not parasitic, like say a blacksmith, or trade that's of unquestioned benefit to the community.

 

Jomoco

[agg221]

Agreed. Science is not able to say there is no God, but in exactly the same way that it is not able to say that there are no unicorns.

 

Aha, a revised version of the raven paradox! I always liked the raven paradox.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raven_paradox

 

Alec

[difflock]

Aha, a revised version of the raven paradox! I always liked the raven paradox.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raven_paradox

 

Alec

 

 

Sometimes, just sometimes, ah think one can overthink a simple observation, having gone all glazy-eyed attempting to unnerstan yer Wiki link Alec.

[Mull]

Agreed. Science is not able to say there is no God, but in exactly the same way that it is not able to say that there are no unicorns.

 

I am not saying categorically that there is no God. I lack the belief in one, (or any of the many) simply because there is no verifiable evidence that any of them exist and the religious doctrines from which faith is derived are literally unbelievable in my opinion. Science is steadily eroding away the tenets of religious faith, and I agree with Big J that eventually it will become redundant.

 

 

 

Would be great to meet up. The work you do sounds fascinating and must be hugely rewarding. I'd love to learn more about it. I'm sure the model would transfer well to woodland management, if I had the balls to set it up!

 

 

Faith versus No Faith?

 

An unwinnable argument?

[agg221]

Sometimes, just sometimes, ah think one can overthink a simple observation, having gone all glazy-eyed attempting to unnerstan yer Wiki link Alec.

 

This is probably true. Does the fact that I find it very funny describing this to my 7yr old and watching her facial expressions as she tries to make sense of it make me a bad parent?

 

Alec

[skyhuck]

Funny how even those with no belief or faith whatsoever still seem to know all about it!

 

A bit like claiming that you don't like the taste of something that you've never tasted.

 

Now imagine if someone were silly enough to say that!

 

 

What makes you think some of us aren't people who have recovered from the affliction of faith.

 

I once believed 100%, but with much research I realised what an utter crock it is, truth is its own reward