Youngstu

I knew that standard pistols were illegal but had wrongly assumed that this didn't apply to specific target shooting models as I thought these were still used in competitive sports, but I suppose what I thought I'd seen must have all been air powered. I guess that this was deemed necessary at the time as there would always be people arguing the toss over whether or not something fitted into a certain category.

I don't think I said at any point that I had no knowledge of the tragic events leading to tighter restrictions on firearms but my knowledge of those restrictions beyond not being allowed to have automatic weapons, having to have firearm licences and having to keep firearms in appropriate cabinets was pretty limited. All of my previous shooting was done through cadets a long time ago so my involvement with anything involving paperwork was very limited, and I didn't have to produce my birth certificate when I bought the second cheapest air rifle in the local agricultural store!! I had no idea that pretty much all handguns were illegal, I had just assumed that specialist target weapons were still permitted. As opposed to being excessively PC I was just trying to gain a bit more understanding of the issues that you and others have with the restrictions and what could be to come without appearing to have preconceived judgements on the issues. Like I said I have no issues with their use for sport, hunting or pest control, but it's not something that I do or have ever bothered looking into.

Lack of base knowledge on the topic, that's me, hence the questions. Also not knowing what your preferred shooting disciplines are lead me to my post. I used to do full bore and small bore target shooting when I was a kid, fired off clays as a Sunday job a long time ago and have a cheap air rifle for keeping the rats in the chicken run under control. Other than the air rifle I probably haven't fired a gun for 25 years. I'm obviously aware that there were times when new legislation was imposed in response to serious incidents when at the time legal firearms were used. What kinds of firearms did you used to enjoy using, that you can no longer own or use? and is there no legal alternative that still enables similar sporting enjoyment without the same real or perceived risks if they fell into the wrong hands? As I said I have no issue with the use of firearms for hunting or other sport, but my general level of ignorance on the subject, combined with an interest in hearing different points of view has lead me to these questions, as opposed to looking for a debate on it.

Before I start, not looking for a row, just interested...? What restrictions have you had placed on you and your firearm activities, and what was the reasoning behind it, and why was those decisions wrong from your point of view? What further restrictions do you anticipate could be imposed on yourself and other firearm users if those without the appropriate understanding of rural issues have their way?

It's good to hear that this is the case for the deer focused shooting estates and hopefully this provides good "sport" for those willing to pay and be involved in more of a stalking experience. From this information it certainly seems that the grouse and pheasant focused estates/shoots give some of the more environmentally sustainable and less damaging options a bad name with the apparent importance of controlling the predators of the birds that they are rearing for the shoot.

South West. Too many Deer down here and the woods are overrun with pheasants at this time of year!

I have absolutely no issue with deer and other pest species being killed/culled/controlled where they are causing damage to the ecosystems and I fully agree that there are too many and it is an important management tool. I'd guess that my issue is with controlling the wild/natural predators of the profitable chosen sport species, especially where this is regularly done so illegally and using dangerous/inhumane methods. I assume that this is much more of a problem where the chosen species are grouse, pheasant etc and the number and variety of predators is larger, and their vulnerability is greater. Without having the figures at hand I would hazard a guess that the deer populations on the estates where their shooting is part of the business may well be too high for the other species in the ecosystem so they have enough for shooting but happy to be corrected if this isn't the case.

I do have a degree of sympathy for those whose livelihoods may be affected by changes to the rules around shooting etc and even those who may find their "sport" becoming outlawed, but when you look at how these shooting estates came into existence to cater for these activities, and the wholescale destruction of wild species that was necessary (or deemed necessary!) it would surely be a good thing to allow them to go back to how they used to be if it was ever possible considering the local extinction of many of the species concerned. I'm currently reading a book called Rebirding, Restoring Britain's Wildlife. It's an interesting read so far but some of the facts and figures for the intentional decimation of unwanted wild species are horrifying such as this example: "On Glengarry Estate , in the Highlands, between 1837 and 1840 alone, 27 white-tailed eagles, 18 golden eagles, 18 ospreys, 275 red kites, 63 goshawks, 462 kestrels, 285 buzzards, 63 hen harriers and 198 wild cats were killed - the records meticulously noted by the person that killed them." We may not get everything back and certainly not in our lifetimes, but if a significant part of these upland areas was returned to nature without the removal of unwanted species to protect the chosen few, surely this would be a good legacy for future generations?

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White (food safe) mineral oil seems to be preferred by by some of the bigger (more expensive!) online sellers, it has no taste or smell and doesn't stay feeling oily. I've been doing a load recently and have just found a reasonably cheap source on Amazon I think. I'm finishing off with a "board butter" made from mineral oil and beeswax, which has helped give an even better colour to the grain and buffs up nicely.

My issue would be about it being targeted at one religion. As Mark said there are extremists of all religions and the key thing that is the issue is extremism and how that specific group interpret their holy book, not about the religion itself. We all know that at this time in history it is the Islamic extremists that are dominating these kinds of crimes but it isn't really about Islam itself. All of those who follow Islam should not have to feel that their religion is to blame, but the teachings of the manipulative extremist preachers who successfully brainwash those who go on to commit atrocities "in the name of" their religion are completely to blame and can rightly be jailed for doing so (in our country). Unfortunately the leadership of some countries is also under the influence of this kind of teaching, but again it's really about the specific interpretation of the holy book rather than the actual religion itself.

I doubt it's a case of zero interest and I'm sure that most have full sympathy for the victims, their friends and families, as well as those who have had to deal with the aftermath of such attacks. Unfortunately discussions on such incidents on here can get very heated with blame being directed towards certain groups. This kind of discussion can get somewhat uncomfortable for many. With a few notable exceptions most don't have the time or desire to regularly get into these kind of discussions with people who struggle to look at situations from a different point of view to that which they hold. Personally I despise these kind of incidents due to the direct effect of the attack and how they serve to stoke the anti-immigrant feelings held and demonstrated in the population. Unfortunately I feel that a significant part of the cause of the rise in Islamic extremism in the last 20 years which is behind these attacks is the past and current foreign policy of many of the western governments. It doesn't excuse the attackers or place the blame at anyone else's feet but does offer one explanation of what has lead to them.

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Really?

Thanks for your reply Kev, I'll deal with each of your points separately to try and keep my points clear and concise? And that may well be the case, but I still don't really see why this is a problem. As I've previously tried to explain there are a variety of reasons for this having happened, primarily the poor treatment and underrepresentation of many minorities in the past (historical and recent). Your comments alongside the original posting and subsequent comments led me to make that conclusion. I won't call anyone a racist unless they clearly display that this is the case, but I'll happily ask people who appear to me to be displaying prejudice to clarify their point if they appear to be making less than clear statements about their feelings, beliefs or why they have them. I have no judgement about what you or others are like as individuals, having not met or known you or others, all I have to base my opinions on are the comments posted on here. Being an infrequent poster on here myself (usually) I'm fully aware that you don't have a great deal to base your judgement of me on other than my disagreements on this and similar topics in recent months. Yep, in full agreement on that bit! ? I do absolutely. We all originated from the same place, due to progress and development over the last ? hundred/thousand years we are all a bunch of mongrels anyway! Domination of one "race", culture or religion in any area, particularly when there are other groups present in the wider society doesn't generally have positive outcomes as far as I can see. How or why is this not working, I'd be fairly confident in saying that children growing up in very mixed multicultural societies leads to greater acceptance of the people who may be from different "ethnic groups" than them. What has lead to the "ethnic and cultural ghettos" developing in urban domains? Through what I've experienced, read, watched etc I would say that the "ethnic and cultural ghettos" have come about largely because of the treatment and attitudes (real or perceived) of the ethnic minorities by others within the resident population. The sequences of events that lead to areas becoming dominated by specific groups has been widely reported with particular reference to immigrants from the Indian subcontinent and Caribbean, but has undoubtedly taken place with groups from Eastern Europe and the Middle East in recent years. If you are treated poorly due to who or what you are, it's understandable that you'd want to live with others in a similar situation to yourself. Extremists are one thing, but by definition most extremists are at the extremities of a belief system. But in my mind there shouldn't be any barriers (real or perceived) to prevent those from different ethnic or social groups from moving and integrating in the "rural domain". This one won't surprise you, but maybe it will... No, not really. Not everyone wants to be an activist and that's fine by me (I certainly wouldn't class myself as an activist). To my mind encouraging people who are not racist to actively fight/argue against racism in its many forms is a good thing, and the only way that our society will become less racist, as all forms of racism become unacceptable ways of behaving. And I'm very well aware that lots of other countries, nationalities, "races" etc are much more racist than the British or English in general, but in my mind any levels of racism (in whichever form ) should be unacceptable in our society in 2020. Hopefully that helps to clear up my position on all of those different points! ?

As I said in my reply below (at the end of our debate last night, just couldn't manage the multiquote thing now) and my reply to your message I fully accept what you said as being truthful and in good faith and don't have any interest in continuing with it. The "giving up" wasn't intended as a dig at you, the misinterpretation of off the cuff statements strikes again!? Unlike some others on here, I don't have any interest of offending for offending's sake, but as for many others, with things like this it is worth seeing them as a game and from my point of view those playing a similar game (on here) are normally coming from the other direction to me so it seemed like my turn to play that game. For clarity this was my final reply to you last night. I thought I was quite clear about accepting what you'd said etc without having any other sly digs, but what we're trying to say doesn't always come across clearly in on screen comments and I'm fully aware that this applies as much to me as anyone else.?‍♂️ And there I was thinking you'd finished this malarkey with a one liner and you go and sneak in a five line edited add on!! sneaky f****er! ? I don't doubt that you're a good colleague and friend, who wouldn't willingly offend those that you work with which is great to know, but as you say it is an open forum so we can all get involved if we see fit. It is also fair to say that there have been many arguments, disagreements and probably much worse thanks to the use of texts, posts, comments etc and how easily words on a screen can be misinterpreted (I know various people who've fallen out with their family due to just that!) Those who know me also know that I'm not normally an argumentative twat, or particularly vocal with my opinions (whether they be beige, woke, marxist or anything else), but sometimes if confronted with something that we disagree with and it seems necessary to make a point most of us are willing to make an exception! ? Have a good and peaceful weekend!

Here we go again... I am more than happy that people disagree with my point of view, life would be very boring if everyone had the same opinions on everything but as it was your original post that got me going on this let's start from the beginning again. ? Your original post and subsequent comments appeared to show (maybe wrongly) that you don't like the diversity make up of tv programmes, adverts etc because they don't reflect the national balance of those minorities and/or what you see on a daily basis. But most importantly you despise political correctness. I personally feel that there are many reasons why the diversity make up shown is not and should not be a problem and my basic question is why do you have a problem with it as it would be a realistic reflection (with some notable exceptions) for many people across the country even if it isn't for you? And as you have no issue (and apparent pride) with saying what you like, even if (or especially if) it will offend others, try to answer that question as clearly as possible without being politically correct (as you hate that so much).

And another one pops up! Even after trying to get down with the kids and including a helpful emoji to improve how a simple tongue in cheek sentence can be understood ? It's like a tag team wrestling match sometimes, just when you think everyone's got over (or given up on) your woke/beige/cloud cuckoo land/marxist views another one gets trawled out from the depths! Go on then Commando, why am I a "libtard"? It's not very PC using that second part of the word is it!!? Is it my views on fairness for all, tolerance of all races and sexualities, my happiness with a multiracial society or maybe that I have no issue with a degree positive discrimination to improve the position of previously oppressed groups within our society? I suppose to put the icing on the cake I'm also pretty OK with our country accepting immigration from a wide range of countries including refugees from war torn countries who may not be able to prove beyond doubt that they have an absolute right to come here, oh and I'm very much in favour of our country contributing significant sums to international aid programmes due to our historic treatment/exploitation of those countries in the past. I'm also not adverse to the idea of a Labour government and I quite liked Jeremy Corbyn too! I'd imagine from that lot there's a fair few reasons that you may consider me to be a "libtard". In response to boring you I do apologise, but since joining Arbtalk the level of what I would consider to be right wing/intolerant/nationalistic postings, which appear to me to be filled with hate and anger seems to have increased. In many cases the original topics don't even have anything to do with politics etc, but some on here seem to think it's appropriate just to shout others down for anything. This may or may not be the reason but there also seems to have been a corresponding reduction in the levels of good, helpful contributions from previously great posters (about tree/arb related stuff) and the forum is less good as a result. Some may be busier than previously and spend less time on here than they had but I know several guys in the industry who stay away because of how people are treated. I rarely post on here in normal times, but occasionally a post or topic tickles your fancy so you decide to get involved and in this case I thought I'd continue to provide my views on the original post to balance those of some our more prolific posters rather than just letting myself be shut down by the usual insults and derogatory statements. I was planning on having a weekend off but if you'd like to hear more of my "libtard views" and why I disagree with your political/cultural views then I'm happy to put in a bit of time and effort in between other things.

And there I was thinking you'd finished this malarkey with a one liner and you go and sneak in a five line edited add on!! sneaky f****er! ? I don't doubt that you're a good colleague and friend, who wouldn't willingly offend those that you work with which is great to know, but as you say it is an open forum so we can all get involved if we see fit. It is also fair to say that there have been many arguments, disagreements and probably much worse thanks to the use of texts, posts, comments etc and how easily words on a screen can be misinterpreted (I know various people who've fallen out with their family due to just that!) Those who know me also know that I'm not normally an argumentative twat, or particularly vocal with my opinions (whether they be beige, woke, marxist or anything else), but sometimes if confronted with something that we disagree with and it seems necessary to make a point most of us are willing to make an exception! ? Have a good and peaceful weekend!

You may see that it's people like me who are the problem but I'm sure that there are others that don't, although I'll be the first to admit that it hasn't 'alf gone on a bit! ? You may see my position as being judgmental, but I see that I was trying to get clarity of what you were actually saying by your less than clear responses. If you are as liberal, open minded, tolerant and accepting as you now seem to be saying then fantastic, but if you were saying what it looked like you were saying then yes I do feel a certain way about that and I make no apologies for it. I guess if you don't fancy getting into a backwards and forwards pointless argument about something you claim you haven't said and if you haven't got anything useful to contribute to a discussion someone else is having with one of your mates maybe don't bother sticking your oar in. Instead of just putting in streams of emojis and insults, maybe just leave them to their own arguments and watch from a distance. It does get a bit boring when the same people are posting the same stuff over and over! ?

Just responding to your repeated statements about working alongside different nationalities and races and saying you had a gay mate as a defence against accusations of your intolerance. Your further use of these examples to help display what an open minded and tolerant gent you are still leaves me slightly confused about why you have such an issue with exaggerated levels (if taken on a national scale) of diversity on TV programmes and adverts. Are those levels of diversity really about political correctness or is it about being inclusive, allowing everyone in our society to see "people like them" on a regular basis?

It's great to see that you happily work alongside a group of guys from across the world and even have a gay friend. But I just wonder why, with spending time in such a diverse and cosmopolitan workplace you even feel that what we see on TV is overtly politically correct. Surely it's representative of what you see on your typical working day.

And again... When you gob off at someone who calls you out for being offensive that doesn't mean that they are easily offended, it possibly indicates that you are being offensive towards someone or other. If your opinions and views are sufficiently offensive that you can't state them in black and white on a public forum maybe share them with each other on private messages, rather than getting all upitty about being called out on those opinions. We all know that there are plenty in society who do share your (apparent) views but it doesn't make sharing them widely is entirely ok in 2020, times have moved on.

points proven again. But as I didn't include a string of emojis I suppose you couldn't see my expression whilst posting it, I'll try and remember them next time! "I'm no bully" ... but if me and my mates join together and carry on having a go at him he might go away and leave us to talk about what we want in the way that we want without anyone bothering us (with their beige/PC/woke/marxist etc BS) I know you didn't actually say that last bit, but again the impression given by the way you interact is that general picture. ?????

First you said this Then I said this (answering your question): Then you asked this: Then I said this: So in summary, you asked if I needed a full explanation of where you lived as you have it in your avatar? ; I then explained why I'd asked where you were and given a summary of why the actual location was of little importance, (in the comments yesterday I gave a description of where I lived in comparison); You then asked again why I asked where you were based; so I responded that you could read back at what I've already written to find the answer.