Youngstu

Thanks for your reply Kev, I'll deal with each of your points separately to try and keep my points clear and concise? And that may well be the case, but I still don't really see why this is a problem. As I've previously tried to explain there are a variety of reasons for this having happened, primarily the poor treatment and underrepresentation of many minorities in the past (historical and recent). Your comments alongside the original posting and subsequent comments led me to make that conclusion. I won't call anyone a racist unless they clearly display that this is the case, but I'll happily ask people who appear to me to be displaying prejudice to clarify their point if they appear to be making less than clear statements about their feelings, beliefs or why they have them. I have no judgement about what you or others are like as individuals, having not met or known you or others, all I have to base my opinions on are the comments posted on here. Being an infrequent poster on here myself (usually) I'm fully aware that you don't have a great deal to base your judgement of me on other than my disagreements on this and similar topics in recent months. Yep, in full agreement on that bit! ? I do absolutely. We all originated from the same place, due to progress and development over the last ? hundred/thousand years we are all a bunch of mongrels anyway! Domination of one "race", culture or religion in any area, particularly when there are other groups present in the wider society doesn't generally have positive outcomes as far as I can see. How or why is this not working, I'd be fairly confident in saying that children growing up in very mixed multicultural societies leads to greater acceptance of the people who may be from different "ethnic groups" than them. What has lead to the "ethnic and cultural ghettos" developing in urban domains? Through what I've experienced, read, watched etc I would say that the "ethnic and cultural ghettos" have come about largely because of the treatment and attitudes (real or perceived) of the ethnic minorities by others within the resident population. The sequences of events that lead to areas becoming dominated by specific groups has been widely reported with particular reference to immigrants from the Indian subcontinent and Caribbean, but has undoubtedly taken place with groups from Eastern Europe and the Middle East in recent years. If you are treated poorly due to who or what you are, it's understandable that you'd want to live with others in a similar situation to yourself. Extremists are one thing, but by definition most extremists are at the extremities of a belief system. But in my mind there shouldn't be any barriers (real or perceived) to prevent those from different ethnic or social groups from moving and integrating in the "rural domain". This one won't surprise you, but maybe it will... No, not really. Not everyone wants to be an activist and that's fine by me (I certainly wouldn't class myself as an activist). To my mind encouraging people who are not racist to actively fight/argue against racism in its many forms is a good thing, and the only way that our society will become less racist, as all forms of racism become unacceptable ways of behaving. And I'm very well aware that lots of other countries, nationalities, "races" etc are much more racist than the British or English in general, but in my mind any levels of racism (in whichever form ) should be unacceptable in our society in 2020. Hopefully that helps to clear up my position on all of those different points! ?

As I said in my reply below (at the end of our debate last night, just couldn't manage the multiquote thing now) and my reply to your message I fully accept what you said as being truthful and in good faith and don't have any interest in continuing with it. The "giving up" wasn't intended as a dig at you, the misinterpretation of off the cuff statements strikes again!? Unlike some others on here, I don't have any interest of offending for offending's sake, but as for many others, with things like this it is worth seeing them as a game and from my point of view those playing a similar game (on here) are normally coming from the other direction to me so it seemed like my turn to play that game. For clarity this was my final reply to you last night. I thought I was quite clear about accepting what you'd said etc without having any other sly digs, but what we're trying to say doesn't always come across clearly in on screen comments and I'm fully aware that this applies as much to me as anyone else.?‍♂️ And there I was thinking you'd finished this malarkey with a one liner and you go and sneak in a five line edited add on!! sneaky f****er! ? I don't doubt that you're a good colleague and friend, who wouldn't willingly offend those that you work with which is great to know, but as you say it is an open forum so we can all get involved if we see fit. It is also fair to say that there have been many arguments, disagreements and probably much worse thanks to the use of texts, posts, comments etc and how easily words on a screen can be misinterpreted (I know various people who've fallen out with their family due to just that!) Those who know me also know that I'm not normally an argumentative twat, or particularly vocal with my opinions (whether they be beige, woke, marxist or anything else), but sometimes if confronted with something that we disagree with and it seems necessary to make a point most of us are willing to make an exception! ? Have a good and peaceful weekend!

Here we go again... I am more than happy that people disagree with my point of view, life would be very boring if everyone had the same opinions on everything but as it was your original post that got me going on this let's start from the beginning again. ? Your original post and subsequent comments appeared to show (maybe wrongly) that you don't like the diversity make up of tv programmes, adverts etc because they don't reflect the national balance of those minorities and/or what you see on a daily basis. But most importantly you despise political correctness. I personally feel that there are many reasons why the diversity make up shown is not and should not be a problem and my basic question is why do you have a problem with it as it would be a realistic reflection (with some notable exceptions) for many people across the country even if it isn't for you? And as you have no issue (and apparent pride) with saying what you like, even if (or especially if) it will offend others, try to answer that question as clearly as possible without being politically correct (as you hate that so much).

And another one pops up! Even after trying to get down with the kids and including a helpful emoji to improve how a simple tongue in cheek sentence can be understood ? It's like a tag team wrestling match sometimes, just when you think everyone's got over (or given up on) your woke/beige/cloud cuckoo land/marxist views another one gets trawled out from the depths! Go on then Commando, why am I a "libtard"? It's not very PC using that second part of the word is it!!? Is it my views on fairness for all, tolerance of all races and sexualities, my happiness with a multiracial society or maybe that I have no issue with a degree positive discrimination to improve the position of previously oppressed groups within our society? I suppose to put the icing on the cake I'm also pretty OK with our country accepting immigration from a wide range of countries including refugees from war torn countries who may not be able to prove beyond doubt that they have an absolute right to come here, oh and I'm very much in favour of our country contributing significant sums to international aid programmes due to our historic treatment/exploitation of those countries in the past. I'm also not adverse to the idea of a Labour government and I quite liked Jeremy Corbyn too! I'd imagine from that lot there's a fair few reasons that you may consider me to be a "libtard". In response to boring you I do apologise, but since joining Arbtalk the level of what I would consider to be right wing/intolerant/nationalistic postings, which appear to me to be filled with hate and anger seems to have increased. In many cases the original topics don't even have anything to do with politics etc, but some on here seem to think it's appropriate just to shout others down for anything. This may or may not be the reason but there also seems to have been a corresponding reduction in the levels of good, helpful contributions from previously great posters (about tree/arb related stuff) and the forum is less good as a result. Some may be busier than previously and spend less time on here than they had but I know several guys in the industry who stay away because of how people are treated. I rarely post on here in normal times, but occasionally a post or topic tickles your fancy so you decide to get involved and in this case I thought I'd continue to provide my views on the original post to balance those of some our more prolific posters rather than just letting myself be shut down by the usual insults and derogatory statements. I was planning on having a weekend off but if you'd like to hear more of my "libtard views" and why I disagree with your political/cultural views then I'm happy to put in a bit of time and effort in between other things.

And there I was thinking you'd finished this malarkey with a one liner and you go and sneak in a five line edited add on!! sneaky f****er! ? I don't doubt that you're a good colleague and friend, who wouldn't willingly offend those that you work with which is great to know, but as you say it is an open forum so we can all get involved if we see fit. It is also fair to say that there have been many arguments, disagreements and probably much worse thanks to the use of texts, posts, comments etc and how easily words on a screen can be misinterpreted (I know various people who've fallen out with their family due to just that!) Those who know me also know that I'm not normally an argumentative twat, or particularly vocal with my opinions (whether they be beige, woke, marxist or anything else), but sometimes if confronted with something that we disagree with and it seems necessary to make a point most of us are willing to make an exception! ? Have a good and peaceful weekend!

You may see that it's people like me who are the problem but I'm sure that there are others that don't, although I'll be the first to admit that it hasn't 'alf gone on a bit! ? You may see my position as being judgmental, but I see that I was trying to get clarity of what you were actually saying by your less than clear responses. If you are as liberal, open minded, tolerant and accepting as you now seem to be saying then fantastic, but if you were saying what it looked like you were saying then yes I do feel a certain way about that and I make no apologies for it. I guess if you don't fancy getting into a backwards and forwards pointless argument about something you claim you haven't said and if you haven't got anything useful to contribute to a discussion someone else is having with one of your mates maybe don't bother sticking your oar in. Instead of just putting in streams of emojis and insults, maybe just leave them to their own arguments and watch from a distance. It does get a bit boring when the same people are posting the same stuff over and over! ?

Just responding to your repeated statements about working alongside different nationalities and races and saying you had a gay mate as a defence against accusations of your intolerance. Your further use of these examples to help display what an open minded and tolerant gent you are still leaves me slightly confused about why you have such an issue with exaggerated levels (if taken on a national scale) of diversity on TV programmes and adverts. Are those levels of diversity really about political correctness or is it about being inclusive, allowing everyone in our society to see "people like them" on a regular basis?

It's great to see that you happily work alongside a group of guys from across the world and even have a gay friend. But I just wonder why, with spending time in such a diverse and cosmopolitan workplace you even feel that what we see on TV is overtly politically correct. Surely it's representative of what you see on your typical working day.

And again... When you gob off at someone who calls you out for being offensive that doesn't mean that they are easily offended, it possibly indicates that you are being offensive towards someone or other. If your opinions and views are sufficiently offensive that you can't state them in black and white on a public forum maybe share them with each other on private messages, rather than getting all upitty about being called out on those opinions. We all know that there are plenty in society who do share your (apparent) views but it doesn't make sharing them widely is entirely ok in 2020, times have moved on.

points proven again. But as I didn't include a string of emojis I suppose you couldn't see my expression whilst posting it, I'll try and remember them next time! "I'm no bully" ... but if me and my mates join together and carry on having a go at him he might go away and leave us to talk about what we want in the way that we want without anyone bothering us (with their beige/PC/woke/marxist etc BS) I know you didn't actually say that last bit, but again the impression given by the way you interact is that general picture. ?????

First you said this Then I said this (answering your question): Then you asked this: Then I said this: So in summary, you asked if I needed a full explanation of where you lived as you have it in your avatar? ; I then explained why I'd asked where you were and given a summary of why the actual location was of little importance, (in the comments yesterday I gave a description of where I lived in comparison); You then asked again why I asked where you were based; so I responded that you could read back at what I've already written to find the answer.

Maybe if you carefully read what I wrote you'll see that this question has already been answered. But if really needed I'll try and rephrase it to make it easier to understand. Just let me know and I'll get on my computer to make it easier for me to copy the order of our comments correctly. ?

Weirdly enough your actual location is of no interest to me and now having looked at your avatar and not knowing that end of the country I'm none the wiser without further investigation. My question was in response to a statement you made as the answer would in all likelihood explain your experience, if you'd said a big city it'd have been surprising. My previous point was that you don't give straight answers either, especially (as with myself) when the question appears to have little relevance.

I'm all for freedom of speech and opinion, as long as the person voicing that opinion is willing to be clear about what they're saying and happy to explain what they mean and why they say it. If they are unwilling to put their feelings into black and white, making it crystal clear what they are really saying then I think it's reasonable to push the matter. If someone displays intolerance in what they're saying but they won't say exactly what they mean, personally I feel it indicates that they know that those views are unacceptable to some of the audience. In effect a person doing that is displaying what they mean in politically correct terms in order not to cause offence! I find digesting the different opinions relatively easy but it doesn't mean they should just be ignored just because the person who put forward that opinion disagrees with mine.

I suppose most people leave education at 16, 18 or 21 give or take a year or two. I was in until the upper end of that so that should help you to estimate the lower end of my age bracket. Not too difficult I'd have thought. When you made a comment alluding to seeing little or no diversity around you I asked "where" it took a couple of goes for you to give an answer as specific as a small village or town (or something like that). Hardly a straight answer!

Maybe I'm wrong on that then, but the impression that you give through your opinions is similar to that of many of the older generation that I've known who don't see an issue with verbalising their intolerance. I have no doubts about your life experiences and I'm glad that you can say through experience that there's " good and bad on both sides". Through asking clear and direct questions, whilst putting across my point of view as clearly as possible, I'm just trying to get you to clarify your position on the topic that we've been "discussing" . For whatever reason you don't seem happy to clarify your thoughts. Enjoy your pest control, whoever you're going with! Hopefully it helps to maintain a healthy balance in the local ecosystem.

Ok, fair enough but it's always seemed that not answering direct questions is the way to go on here! Without being too specific I spent a fair few years in education but have spent well over half of it out in the real world, so I'm sure you can have a reasonable guess.

Possibly not as old as you, almost certainly not as old as Johnson and probably older than the other one who disagrees with me but won't get himself involved now after getting all abusive and banned previously. I'm certainly old enough to have seen things change but to realise that some people are unwilling to back down and change their opinions as times change. But I hope I'm young and open minded enough to have some faith that in general things are changing for the better, and maybe even do my little bit to help in one way or another. Sometimes it's also worth considering whose chain is being yanked!

As I predicted more insults and belittling comments from you. No change there then. As opposed to just telling me what a PC/woke/beige world I live in and telling me how I should satisfy my wife ( I don't think I'll take your advice on that one but thanks for the suggestion) . Maybe try making your thoughts on diversity in our society crystal clear so I don't have to misinterpret them.

If this is the case why do you give the impression of having an issue with diversity in this country, or at least it's representation? It comes across as being ok with it, as long as it's not here! Exaggeration of levels of diversity (compared to what is seen where we live) is not necessarily an exaggeration for everyone, so why is this political correctness? And if political correctness is what is said or done to try and avoid insulting and upsetting those who may have experienced poor treatment due to their differences what's the problem with that?

Just one of those who wakes up at stupid o'clock and thought it'd be a (debatably) productive use of my time challenging some of your insults and accusations. Your repeated belittling of any opinion that's different to yours involving an assortment of insults would easily be construed as bullying as it's clearly done to shut down the conversation and appeal to the others that share your point of view.

Wasn't having a dig at all, just explaining why I'm here.

I don't think I've been unfair at all. He's had every opportunity to say what he thinks as opposed to just making derogatory statements about my thoughts. He likes that word too! Point proven!

I fully agree, every group does seem to be ticked in cases like this to the point of it being ridiculous. However part of me feels that this is also is being done because of how things have been for so long where the vast majority of people in any positive position have been white, male and straight. With anyone who doesn't fit those criteria being sidelined to minor roles, or in many cases joke figures (or worse). You don't have to go back very long to find this across the tv and simply changing the current "quotas" to the current national statistics wouldn't solve the problems.

So the general scenario again is: 1.Someone makes a statement or shares another post that displays views that I (or someone else who can be arsed to bother) would consider to be intolerant/outdated/offensive etc. 2. I (or someone else who can be arsed) challenge that statement/opinion etc in a polite way, often putting forward the ideas of tolerance or fairness and consideration for others in society 3. You respond with a variety of belittling statements, invariably including the word drivel and accusing whoever it is that responded with being PC, Woke, Marxist, stupid, ignorant, mentally deranged etc 4. The person who bothered to respond tries to get you to explain your position or views on the subject, as it is quite clear that they don't agree, (asking questions is a good way to get someone to clarify their position). 5. Repeat of point 3. The only assumption that I can make from this scenario repeating itself (and not just you!) is that you are aware that if you were to fully clarify your feelings and give a clear explanation of your views on the matter that they would be considered to be offensive and know that you shouldn't share them on a public forum such as this. I may be completely wrong on this but this is the impression that you give by the responses that you make (or don't make). I come on Arbtalk because I work in woodland, carrying out a variety of tree related jobs and value the resource that is available here from people with a massive amount of experience, in the field that I work in who offer some brilliant advice and opinions in loads of different areas. Unfortunately (in my opinion) there are some on here who seem to think it's a good place to spout off (what are considered by many ) offensive opinions unchallenged and then shout down the challenger in the manner of a playground bully. Unfortunately I am of a generation who has seen offensive opinions in our parents and grandparents just being the accepted way that things are and know that challenging those viewpoints is necessary for things to change in the wider society. Just because many of us live in rural locations with little or no diversity, that doesn't mean it's representative of society as a whole and maybe those who live in such places need to accept how it is for others.