Youngstu

It's great to see that you happily work alongside a group of guys from across the world and even have a gay friend. But I just wonder why, with spending time in such a diverse and cosmopolitan workplace you even feel that what we see on TV is overtly politically correct. Surely it's representative of what you see on your typical working day.

And again... When you gob off at someone who calls you out for being offensive that doesn't mean that they are easily offended, it possibly indicates that you are being offensive towards someone or other. If your opinions and views are sufficiently offensive that you can't state them in black and white on a public forum maybe share them with each other on private messages, rather than getting all upitty about being called out on those opinions. We all know that there are plenty in society who do share your (apparent) views but it doesn't make sharing them widely is entirely ok in 2020, times have moved on.

points proven again. But as I didn't include a string of emojis I suppose you couldn't see my expression whilst posting it, I'll try and remember them next time! "I'm no bully" ... but if me and my mates join together and carry on having a go at him he might go away and leave us to talk about what we want in the way that we want without anyone bothering us (with their beige/PC/woke/marxist etc BS) I know you didn't actually say that last bit, but again the impression given by the way you interact is that general picture. ?????

First you said this Then I said this (answering your question): Then you asked this: Then I said this: So in summary, you asked if I needed a full explanation of where you lived as you have it in your avatar? ; I then explained why I'd asked where you were and given a summary of why the actual location was of little importance, (in the comments yesterday I gave a description of where I lived in comparison); You then asked again why I asked where you were based; so I responded that you could read back at what I've already written to find the answer.

Maybe if you carefully read what I wrote you'll see that this question has already been answered. But if really needed I'll try and rephrase it to make it easier to understand. Just let me know and I'll get on my computer to make it easier for me to copy the order of our comments correctly. ?

Weirdly enough your actual location is of no interest to me and now having looked at your avatar and not knowing that end of the country I'm none the wiser without further investigation. My question was in response to a statement you made as the answer would in all likelihood explain your experience, if you'd said a big city it'd have been surprising. My previous point was that you don't give straight answers either, especially (as with myself) when the question appears to have little relevance.

I'm all for freedom of speech and opinion, as long as the person voicing that opinion is willing to be clear about what they're saying and happy to explain what they mean and why they say it. If they are unwilling to put their feelings into black and white, making it crystal clear what they are really saying then I think it's reasonable to push the matter. If someone displays intolerance in what they're saying but they won't say exactly what they mean, personally I feel it indicates that they know that those views are unacceptable to some of the audience. In effect a person doing that is displaying what they mean in politically correct terms in order not to cause offence! I find digesting the different opinions relatively easy but it doesn't mean they should just be ignored just because the person who put forward that opinion disagrees with mine.

I suppose most people leave education at 16, 18 or 21 give or take a year or two. I was in until the upper end of that so that should help you to estimate the lower end of my age bracket. Not too difficult I'd have thought. When you made a comment alluding to seeing little or no diversity around you I asked "where" it took a couple of goes for you to give an answer as specific as a small village or town (or something like that). Hardly a straight answer!

Maybe I'm wrong on that then, but the impression that you give through your opinions is similar to that of many of the older generation that I've known who don't see an issue with verbalising their intolerance. I have no doubts about your life experiences and I'm glad that you can say through experience that there's " good and bad on both sides". Through asking clear and direct questions, whilst putting across my point of view as clearly as possible, I'm just trying to get you to clarify your position on the topic that we've been "discussing" . For whatever reason you don't seem happy to clarify your thoughts. Enjoy your pest control, whoever you're going with! Hopefully it helps to maintain a healthy balance in the local ecosystem.

Ok, fair enough but it's always seemed that not answering direct questions is the way to go on here! Without being too specific I spent a fair few years in education but have spent well over half of it out in the real world, so I'm sure you can have a reasonable guess.

Possibly not as old as you, almost certainly not as old as Johnson and probably older than the other one who disagrees with me but won't get himself involved now after getting all abusive and banned previously. I'm certainly old enough to have seen things change but to realise that some people are unwilling to back down and change their opinions as times change. But I hope I'm young and open minded enough to have some faith that in general things are changing for the better, and maybe even do my little bit to help in one way or another. Sometimes it's also worth considering whose chain is being yanked!

As I predicted more insults and belittling comments from you. No change there then. As opposed to just telling me what a PC/woke/beige world I live in and telling me how I should satisfy my wife ( I don't think I'll take your advice on that one but thanks for the suggestion) . Maybe try making your thoughts on diversity in our society crystal clear so I don't have to misinterpret them.

If this is the case why do you give the impression of having an issue with diversity in this country, or at least it's representation? It comes across as being ok with it, as long as it's not here! Exaggeration of levels of diversity (compared to what is seen where we live) is not necessarily an exaggeration for everyone, so why is this political correctness? And if political correctness is what is said or done to try and avoid insulting and upsetting those who may have experienced poor treatment due to their differences what's the problem with that?

Just one of those who wakes up at stupid o'clock and thought it'd be a (debatably) productive use of my time challenging some of your insults and accusations. Your repeated belittling of any opinion that's different to yours involving an assortment of insults would easily be construed as bullying as it's clearly done to shut down the conversation and appeal to the others that share your point of view.

Wasn't having a dig at all, just explaining why I'm here.

I don't think I've been unfair at all. He's had every opportunity to say what he thinks as opposed to just making derogatory statements about my thoughts. He likes that word too! Point proven!

I fully agree, every group does seem to be ticked in cases like this to the point of it being ridiculous. However part of me feels that this is also is being done because of how things have been for so long where the vast majority of people in any positive position have been white, male and straight. With anyone who doesn't fit those criteria being sidelined to minor roles, or in many cases joke figures (or worse). You don't have to go back very long to find this across the tv and simply changing the current "quotas" to the current national statistics wouldn't solve the problems.

So the general scenario again is: 1.Someone makes a statement or shares another post that displays views that I (or someone else who can be arsed to bother) would consider to be intolerant/outdated/offensive etc. 2. I (or someone else who can be arsed) challenge that statement/opinion etc in a polite way, often putting forward the ideas of tolerance or fairness and consideration for others in society 3. You respond with a variety of belittling statements, invariably including the word drivel and accusing whoever it is that responded with being PC, Woke, Marxist, stupid, ignorant, mentally deranged etc 4. The person who bothered to respond tries to get you to explain your position or views on the subject, as it is quite clear that they don't agree, (asking questions is a good way to get someone to clarify their position). 5. Repeat of point 3. The only assumption that I can make from this scenario repeating itself (and not just you!) is that you are aware that if you were to fully clarify your feelings and give a clear explanation of your views on the matter that they would be considered to be offensive and know that you shouldn't share them on a public forum such as this. I may be completely wrong on this but this is the impression that you give by the responses that you make (or don't make). I come on Arbtalk because I work in woodland, carrying out a variety of tree related jobs and value the resource that is available here from people with a massive amount of experience, in the field that I work in who offer some brilliant advice and opinions in loads of different areas. Unfortunately (in my opinion) there are some on here who seem to think it's a good place to spout off (what are considered by many ) offensive opinions unchallenged and then shout down the challenger in the manner of a playground bully. Unfortunately I am of a generation who has seen offensive opinions in our parents and grandparents just being the accepted way that things are and know that challenging those viewpoints is necessary for things to change in the wider society. Just because many of us live in rural locations with little or no diversity, that doesn't mean it's representative of society as a whole and maybe those who live in such places need to accept how it is for others.

Just in case you missed them in your urgency to tell me I was talking drivel again, I'll post the same questions again: Just out of curiosity... Why a "beige utopia"? it just seems a strange turn of phrase. What is the society that you " yearn for" ?

I think I asked you the same yesterday when you said that what was on TV didn't represent what you see on a daily basis. I live in a South West village so the diversity on TV isn't what I see every day, but I don't have an issue with that and think it's good to see the diversity seen in other areas represented on our screens.

When you say the "likes of yourself" that appears to mean someone who disagrees with your point of view and challenges what comes across as your intolerance to alternative viewpoints. Just out of curiosity... Why a "beige utopia"? it just seems a strange turn of phrase. What is the society that you " yearn for" ? Personally I don't have an issue with the current make up of British society and think that diversity spreading out from the urban areas will be good for the country as a whole, and I hope for my children to be able to live in a tolerant and diverse society wherever they choose to be.

If you look at the urban/rural stats it quite possibly is (in your favour). Who is really classed as a minority though? or who would you like to see classed as a minority? There seem to be quite a lot of tv programmes about rural life, are those representative in terms of time given when compared to the national population and should they be?

Thanks for contributing such a well thought out defense of one side of the argument or the other. I guess it makes a change from telling me that I'm spouting drivel! I'm suggesting that maybe our TV content should represent the more diverse parts of our country. Looking at government data, 83% of the population live in an "urban" situation, with 35% living in an "urban major conurbation" and 43% in an "urban city and town". Only 17% live in a "rural " situation. These figures are for England as that's the first ones I could find. Urban areas are generally more diverse than rural areas, so whose normality do you think should be represented on TV?

Quite simple really, where do you not see the diversity in everyday life? and should what you see and are comfortable with be what is represented on TV?

Where?