Paul in the woods

Moisture content of a piece of wood is defined in two ways. Wet basis which is a measure of the water in a log, expressed as the weight of water as a percentage of the wet/unseasoned log. (i.e. wood and water) Dry basis which is a measure of the water in a log, expressed as the weight of water as a percentage of the completely dry log. (i.e. just the wood) Firewood is measured on wet basis but wood for other uses such as construction may be measured on dry basis. Many wood moisture meters do not state what basis they use and are likely to measure on a dry basis. The Air Quality (Domestic Solid Fuels Standards) (England) Regulations coming into force soon stop small quantities of firewood from being supplied where the moisture content is above 20%. The law does not mention what basis is used but as it is relating to fuel it can be assumed the moisture content should be 20% wet basis. If you have a cheap moisture meter which measures on a dry basis it is worth noting 25% dry basis = 20% wet basis. Some useful calculations Wet basis moisture content = weight water / ( weight dry wood + weight water) * 100 Dry basis moisture content = (weight water / dry weight) * 100 You can convert from dry basis to wet basis using the following formula: Wet basis moisture content = 100 * Dry basis moisture content / ( 100 + Dry basis moisture content) Further information including how to test the moisture content by drying test pieces of wood in an oven can be found in the following link. Note, this method could be used to confirm what basis a moisture meter uses to measure: https://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/documents/1979/FR_BEC_Testing_Moisture_Content_Simple_method_2011.pdf

@Woodworks has asked for something to be written that can be stickied in the firewood section. I've written a first draft that may be over simple for some but is aimed more at people who don't know much about moisture content, perhaps a log customer who is checking a delivery of logs. Can I ask people to read though what's written and make any suggestions for changes. I can them make them in a new post for Steve to sticky. Many thanks.

Don't forget to upload a video!

I may well be in the same boat in a year or two. Loads of ash that may need to be removed and a supply of firewood that could last a decade. I know ash kept dry will last years but I don't have the money to build a vast wood shed. I've got some fallen ash trees that do rot quite quickly after a couple of years. So, how to keep it from rotting without spending vast amounts keeping it covered. I've been logging some young ash that's been down several months and I was surprised how easy it was to split. But it's already getting a bit dusty to cut.

That depends on what you have. I wonder how something like larch would compare to poplar or willow? I would rather process and burn larch. (Or more likely mill it and use around the garden).

I think it's been wet everywhere this year. Technically I live on the edge of a rain forest (temperate) and it's certainly lived up to that over the last 6-9 months. Most logs will go mouldy round here unless stacked well. I've got a pile of oak that's completely covered in moss in about 12 months. Going back to the OP, if mould is a concern then ash seems to be the least susceptible although I've even got ash with a huge flush of turkey tail.

I've had bloody rats living in one of my stacks. Droppings and rubbish everywhere. Smells too. Rank creatures. When I get round to building a decent sized woodstore I intend to raise the bottom a foot or so off the ground, not just for good air circulation but to try and reduce the amount of vermin. We occasionally get rats and mice, although I mostly tend to find the odd remains of something I assume the stoat has feasted on.

Birch is also fairly commonly sold/used even if it is a light and fast burning wood. Less common I'd say alder and hazel. If you wait a bit someone will put up a misleading poem.😉

I get stoats in mine.

If you stack it now and get air to it the mould will dry off and the logs will be perfectly usable. I like sycamore, it can go a bit mouldy under the bark but it seasons quickly. Burns a bit fast than ash but that's because it's less dense.

Yes, I've used * rather than +, I'll edit it.

Going off topic a bit, but if anyone is interested, I found an American site that has some details about their wood working moisture meters. Details in the FAQ section here: https://www.delmhorst.com/faqs/woodworking-industrial-and-mill It states "Resistance-type meters express moisture content as a percentage of the oven-dry weight of the wood." So that's dry basis. It also talks about driving pins a quarter of the way in to a board or using a pinless, magnetic field meter. Also, I posted this up a while back, https://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/documents/1979/FR_BEC_Testing_Moisture_Content_Simple_method_2011.pdf That has the statement: “Dry basis” is expressed as the percentage of the oven dry weight of the wood. For example, if the wood in a piece of timber weights 50kg and the water also weighs 50kg then the dry basis moisture content is 100%. The main advantage of this method is that the oven dry weight of the wood remains constant. This method is the standard used by many of the organisations doing research on wood, as well as building surveyors and architects. (It is rare to use dry basis measurements when talking about woodfuel) The MCdb = (Weight of water in a sample/ oven dry weight of sample)x100 I have assumed that if an architect is specifying moisture in dry basis then a chippy will be working with dry basis. I could be wrong of course.

There still doesn't seem to be anything stopping you from burning a huge pile of wet arisings. Just as long as you don't cause a nuisance. Check with your local council, mine seems to almost encourage them as they state there may not be an alternative.

As has been said, I gather it's the building trades so construction timber would be dry basis. Your planks I would assume would be sold dry basis. Firewood, biomass woodchip etc on wet basis.

Say you have a fresh piece of tree. Green Weight = 2,000g which consists of 1,200g of dry wood and 800g water. Wet basis the moisture would be = weight water / ( weight dry wood + weight water) * 100 = 800 / ( 1200 + 800) * 100 = 40% wet basis This can be more simply written =weight water / green weight * 100 = 800 / 2000 * 100 = 40% Dry basis the moisture would be = (weight water / dry weight) * 100 = ( 800 / 1200 ) = 66.7% You can convert from dry basis to wet basis using the following formula Mwet = 100 * Mdry / ( 100 + Mdry) which in the above example is 100 * 66.7 / (100 + 66.7) = 40%

Wet basis is a measure of the water in a log, expressed as the weight of water as a percentage of the wet/unseasoned log. (i.e. wood and water) Dry basis is a measure of the water in a log, expressed as the weight of water as a percentage of the completely dry log. (i.e. just the wood). It gets confusing because firewood is measured on wet basis but timber for construction on dry basis. Most, if not all, cheap meters seem to measure dry basis but they don't state this. It is important due to the new firewood rules which somewhat strangely don't mention what basis they use but it appears to be wet basis. Logs need to be 20% wet basis or under. 20% wet basis = 25% dry basis. This becomes important as it seems you can air dry logs down to about 20% wet basis. If someone uses a cheap moisture meter they may think the logs are 25% and complain. Realistically I would hope/expect some clarifications when the laws come in to force.

What sort of protected species would stop chipping brash, especially fresh brash?

I'm possibly in a similar position in that I would like to chip some of the brash in my young woodland I'm thinning so I can get around a bit more easily. I could also do with the chippings to make a decent path and to keep the mud down. However, after going round in circles trying to find a suitable chipper I did take some time to pile a lot of the brash up and it was surprising how much you can get into a decent habitat pile. Just need to choose a few sensible places.

Time to update this thread. I picked up a short hex socket m30 plug that I could drive in from the back. It took a while but with care and then brute force it cleaned out the threads. However, the part still wouldn't thread onto the piston so I picked up a die from Tracy Tools (thanks again @openspaceman ). This removed a bit more material and now the digger is back together. I'm not sure if driving the bolt in first helped, but it did mean I could get the die in a few turns before I had to use force.

Nothing stopping you writing your own letter explaining the situation is there? Just add the official one whilst pointing out how daft it is.

We probably need a legal beagle to answer but it'll just need a test case in a suitable court and the law would be clarified. I expect there are other laws where the question of does supply mean delivery has been sorted.

I understand and it sounds to me like a good scheme. The problem with regards to the law as I see it is you're doing the seasoning so need to be in the Woodsure scheme. Otherwise, the law says, there's nothing stopping someone less scrupulous that you selling small amounts of unseasoned logs. If the customer was doing the seasoning they'd need to cope with 2 cubic meters at a time. Not saying the law is right or sensible, but then what laws are?

I understand what your saying and it may well come down to what your local enforcement bods say if and when they take action against anyone. In your case I would consider what you deliver on one day a unit. In Woodworks case I would consider consider a unit delivered with two trips in one or even two days a unit but not spread over months. But that's just me. I can see trading standards not doing much against the smaller companies for a number of years as they lack resources and if you keep in the spirit of the regs I would hope you'd just get a warning and advice rather than a fine. I would take the opportunity to get as many of your customers to accept 2m cube or you may well have to sign up to the scheme in the years to come.

I'm not sure of your point? Does the word Supply not cover delivery? And the phrase Unit would mean 2 cubic meters in one go?

Just noticed the letter is in the law: