the village idiot

Still on the hunt if there's anyone out there.

Hi Eggs, I should be able to borrow a telehandler from the woodland owner to load. I will need to confirm with the engineering company in Exeter as to delivery day, although I suspect it will be fairly flexible. Really appreciate the help, G.

Hello All, The time has come for Puffing Billy (my exeter charcoal retort kiln) to take a trip home for some TLC involving extreme heat and a big hammer. My problem is that I am in Suffolk and I need to get the kiln to Exeter, where the upgrades will be carried out for free by the manufacturers. The kiln weighs in at 1300kg and I don't have a suitable vehicle, or licence, for that matter to do the transporting. I was wondering if there was anyone out there with a landrover or flat bed transit type vehicle who had a day free and wanted to earn a few bob to do the couriering for me. I will also need the kiln picking up again about two weeks or so after the drop off, and delivering back to Hadleigh, Suffolk. I realise that you are all mega busy, but also know that you are good people who like to help out if they can. If anyone can help or knows of anyone who might be able to I would be eternally grateful. All the best, Graham

that is hilarious! Good find Mr Arborist

If that is Master Waters you won't find a more experienced wood collier, his knowledge is inexhaustable. For anyone interested, he also hosts Charfest in Aug. This is a three day grubby get together where they undertake three types of charcoal production method: Earthburn, ring kiln and retort kiln.

Apologies for slight derail, but wondered if anyone uses these type of trailers for woodland management work- namely extracting log rings along woodland rides. I am aware of the lack of walking beam axle and the presence of potentially 'catchy' brake cables but would be interested to hear if anyone makes do none the less.

Slower than the village idiot Gerbutt! worrying times.

Found it! Originally posted by Skyhuck. Please excuse the lack of paragraphs, (copy error) A Little StoryThe businessman was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The businessman complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them. The Mexican replied only a little while.The businessman then asked why he didn't stay out longer and catch more fish? The Mexican said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs. The businessman then asked, but what do you do with the rest of your time? The Mexican fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take a siesta with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos; I have a full and busy life, señor."The businessman scoffed, "I am a Harvard MBA and I could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats; eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman, you would sell directly to the processor and eventually open your own cannery. You would control the product, processing and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually New York City where you would run your expanding enterprise."The Mexican fisherman asked, "But señor, how long will this all take?" To which the businessman replied, "15-20 years." "But what then, señor?" The businessman laughed and said, "That's the best part! When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich. You would make millions." "Millions, señor? Then what?" The businessman said, "Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take a siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos."The fisherman, still smiling, looked up and said, "Isn't that what I'm doing already" Author unknown.

Someone a couple of years ago posted an excellent old story about a fisherman and a banker which has stayed with me since I read it. Your post reminded me of it. I can't find it at the moment so if anyone can beat me to it (or knows what the hell I'm on about) please go ahead

Hi Rovers90. Your points are certainly valid. Investing in the exeter retort was a gamble and the payback period is undoubtedly long. The machine will need a certain amount of maintenance over time but this will not amount to huge sums and as long as the retort is looked after and not abused there is no reason why it couldn't go on making top notch charcoal for many years. I appreciate that the exeter retort will not be compatible with everyone's business model, especially with our fixation on maximum profits and quick returns. Also, as mentioned in a previous post, other retort buyers have benefitted from a 40% grant for the purchase. This obviously shows the figures in a very different light. I did not manage to take advantage of the grant, but I am an idiot after all! It is also worth pointing out that it is possible to achieve much more than £130 per burn if you set yourself up to supply direct to local shops or the end user. One of my customers is selling 6kg bags of mixed hardwood retort charcoal to the public for £17 plus delivery, and he cannot keep up with demand. I believe somebody asked in a previous post about insulation. Both the doors and the body of the retort are insulated with a ceramic blanket type material. This does an excellent job, and even when placed directly on the ground the grass underneath remains un-scorched.

The internal buckles on my (un-strengthened) inner chamber are quite severe. It is sagging around the support pillars which carry the weight of the charge chamber. It still works fine, but it means I can fit less wood in. The machine is going to exeter in the autumn to be rectified. In terms of converting different species, I have only tried hornbeam, ash, oak, field maple, birch and hazel so far. All of these have converted perfectly and I see no reason why other species wouldn't do the same. I know that some of the other owners are using beech and softwood successfully. Hazel makes the best charcoal in my opinion. The retort isn't fussy about the diameter of the material. I load my kiln with anything up to about 6' diameter. You really don't want to be messing around with splitting wood for charcoal if you can avoid it, and I charcoal all hardwoods that are too small for firewood. I have a customer who sells 'species specific' charcoal into the london restaurants. They are always looking for more retort charcoal to buy in. I also have other good outlets for bulk charcoal which I can pass on if anyone decides to go for it. You will achieve a better margin selling direct to the retailer, or even better- direct to the public, there is however significant further processing involved.

There was and maybe still is grant funding available to help with the purchase cost. It depends somewhat on geographical location and unfortunately I didn't qualify, but I know that some of the other retort owners got 40% of the cost paid. It would be worth asking Robin and Geoff about this as I believe there may even be a Exeter retort grant application template floating around somewhere that potential applicants can use. Getting the grant would obviously significantly reduce the payback time on the kiln. It is probably worth saying at this point that charcoal production does not make you rich. It is quite hard work for, by many people's expectations, little return. I would struggle to make a living from charcoal alone, but it does play an important part in my woodland-management activities. It provides an income stream from all the ugly wood and neglected coppice material, and importantly you can get on with other jobs whilst the kiln does it's thing. You do need to stay in the vicinity though to keep an eye on the temperature. If anyone wants to see a used retort in the flesh you are more than welcome to come for a woody walk and see the retort. I am close to Ipswich in Suffolk. I may even be able to rustle up a sausage! -Stop giggling at the back-

Good idea with the long posts. I thought for the time being I would send a series of shorter posts so I can send them off before the mysterious mistress of fate banishes them to the digital nether regions of doom. Regarding lifespan of the kiln- this is a very pertinent question, and the honest answer is that I have no idea... yet. Robin and Geoff the designers and marketers of the exeter retort have done over 70 burns in their original prototype and it is still going, although due to the heat stresses involved in charcoal production it is now a rather different shape from when it started out. On the face of it this sounds seriously alarming, but with charcoal kilns there is invariably metal warping and the exeter retort is designed so that it can be literally beaten back into shape. For this purpose it is handy to know a good local metal worker, or live within easy reach of exeter. Since I bought my kiln the inner chamber which holds the wood to be converted has been redesigned and strengthened, so should go a lot longer before needing attention. Another weak point is the baffle plate which slides in between the charge chamber and the fire underneath. Robin and Geoff are experimenting with a stainless steel baffle but results are not yet out. If the whole kiln wee to be made out of stainless it would probably outlast the sun but it would probably be at least double the price, and it wood be a brave woodsman who decided to take the plunge. There are a handful of retort owners dotted about, some with the improved inner chamber and some who have got more burns under their lengths of baler twine than me. I will get a list of email addresses together as it would be well worth speaking to as many owners as you can, including the formidable Alan Waters who is almost certainly made of charcoal . I'll also post some thoughts on biochar, which the exeter retort was originally designed for. This is an exciting developing area well worth keeping an eye on. Until we meet again, TVI

Could be Mr Bolam didn't make it back from the ale house and slept up a tree.

Hi folks, Just wrote a monster post on the retort, just before sending my computer crashed and I lost the lot. Doh!!! Am now going to gayly skip amongst the bees, brambles, birches and butterflies to regain my composure. Will try again later, TVI.

Yes, I have noticed this too. Are they definitely mosquitoes? Whatever they are the woodland birds love them. I have watched a Jenny wren gorging itself on them. Easy pickings!

Hi folks. Firstly apologies for not posting last night as promised. I had a longer day than planned and fell asleep on the sofa! So to the exeter retort. I bought the second one off the production line in June 2012. I believe there are still only about 10 in existence. This is almost certainly due to their cost compared to ring kilns. My retort cost just shy of £10,000 plus vat. The sellers can also provide a custom built trailer for another £2000, but I opted to fore-go this and bought a cheap but sturdy car transporting trailer off you know where for £200. The kiln itself weighs in at 1300kg and will hold around 500kg of wood (dependant on species and water content) so any trailer needs to be rated at 2000kg to be safe. The exeter retort produces superb quality charcoal. I have done around 40 burns with mine so far (my main focus is woodland management so am not charcoaling full time) and have not had a single brown end (piece of unconverted wood) or burn out (hugely disappointing kiln full of ash). The retort also seems to produce a relatively small amount of fines compared to ring kilns. Having used ring kilns in my mis-spent youth I can categorically say that in comparison the exeter retort is an absoloute joy to use. It is much faster (burn time from lighting to walking away can be as little as 6 hours). It is a doddle to load and unload, and importantly it is far less damaging environmentally than a ring kiln as it burns off a large proportion of the volatile wood gasses as part of the process. In theory you could do a burn a day with the exeter retort, although in reality this would be seriously hard work and I would say that 3 burns per week would be a more achievable target. The ratio of loaded wood to charcoal product is about 4:1, so with a 500kg 'charge' of wood I get about 125kg of the black stuff. This also compares favourably with a ring kiln which has a ratio of around 7:1. To give you some idea of figures, I sell nearly all my charcoal wholesale (ungraded) so straight out of the kiln and away. Charcoal grading and bagging is a true dark art which I avoid at all costs! I sell for £1.10 kg which equates to about £130 per burn. I could get more for the charcoal but I have found two buyers who I have an excellent relationship with, and I value this much more highly than achieving bigger returns with more hassle. There is another retort owner who converts beech and is knocking on the door of 200kg per burn, but this is hard on the kiln and has its consequences- more on this later. I'm afraid I've run out of time this morning, but before you all rush out and buy one please stay tuned for the next instalment. There are several things to take into account before taking the plunge and I would not be doing you any favours if I didn't take some time to explain these. I'll try and post again within the next couple of days. All the best. TVI

Hi TGB, I have one of those (exeter retort). I'm just off out but have plenty to say on the subject and can post an essay this evening. Where are you based? You are welcome to come and see mine or I can put you in touch with another owner.

Sorry, severe thread hijack going on. PM sent

That's a coincidence, so am I !!

Where are you based CHC. I know some guys who are always after apple wood to make charcoal with. Depending on distance they may be interested.

Sussex Groundie - I'm not certain but I think Needle Nosed Pliers 16, position 3b, desk 4a may be lying 0.6 degrees off true North!! Best go and check.

I have a Kilworth 8 ton electric horizontal splitter. I think it cost about a grand. I am very happy with it. Obviously you need 240v on site or a generator.

Hi RMC, I manage a large ancient woodland in Suffolk with oodles of mature Ash. You would be welcome to come and have a look around if you wanted to see if there's anything suitable.

Don't be daft, haven't you met my dentist Sebastion?