the village idiot

It's not looking good at all. Heard from Riko yesterday, they think it is probably a write-off! Bit of a shock as I thought I just had an oil leak. The hydrostatic drive box is compromised and Carraro don't make the boxes anymore. They are going to see if the factory in Italy has any bright ideas but they are not confident. This will have a major effect on my woodland operations as I am only in my second year and trying to get set up. This is probably teaching Grandma to suck eggs but please be ultra vigilant when buying second hand kit. This tractor was purchased a year ago in good faith from a tractor dealer near London (NOT RIKO). All appeared well but the tractor was hiding some expensive issues which the dealer should have been (and quite likely was) aware of. Next time I will be a lot less naive and buy from a known and trusted seller.

When I went to view the prototype of my charcoal kiln I was hugely impressed to find that it had an integrated pasty warming shelf. When I took delivery I found it had been designed out! I was devastated and almost sent it back. What good is a charcoal kiln without a pasty warming shelf?

Splendid looking machine. Does the mug on the mudguard come as standard or did you have to pay extra?

Yes, it is imperative to let the Kiln cool down before opening, ideally to ambient temperature. Having said that, even stone cold 'fresh' charcoal can very occasionally spontaneously ignite. For this reason it is advisable to leave it standing for a few days before bagging. This enables it to absorb some atmospheric moisture, making it more stable. Some impatient charcoal makers have been known to open kilns early and drench the Kiln contents with water. In my view this is not only a risky strategy but must also affect the quality of the end product. A wood collier has to learn to operate to charcoal time. Sometimes a burn will be unpredictable and will take you long into the night. Some would find this unacceptable, I think that it adds to the romance!

Thanks for the offer John. The material I want to collect is all in the old coppice area around that first pond we looked at. I an keen to keep conventional vehicles out of that area if at all possible. I have had a couple of offers of tractors from fellow arbtalkers which I need to follow up.

Incidentally wasn't/is Bio Regional a coop? I was asked if I would be interested in burning for them a few years ago but they wer too restrictive about species ie no willow, sallow or softwoods which were the ones I wanted to use because of their low value as logs!* I think a lot of charcoal producers had to leave bio-regional when they introduced an FSC only sourcing policy. The margins were ridiculously tight already without any extra certification costs, group scheme or no. FSC probably deserves a thread all to itself so I won't start ranting here!

Have also considered brick Alexander retort as I'm permanently based in a wood with concrete track access. Has anyone seen one working/used one? I know you have to buy the plans but would like to know if they're efficient it would certainly stop the warping problems I haven't heard of the Alexander retort. There is a brick built retort called the 'Adam Retort' which may be similar. The only people I know to have tried this system in the UK are Carbon Gold. They are the big cheeses in UK biochar, set up by Craig Sams (the ex Green and Blacks owner). Carbon Gold have now developed their own range of retort kilns so presumably didn't get on with the brick retort. It is a popular design in the developing world because it is relatively cheap and can be built by any bricklayer. The potential issues with them, as far as I can see, are similar to those with ring kilns ie. No real temperature control and the need to climb in and shovel out the product. This is unpleasant enough when you have had a good burn but soul destroying when your kiln is full of ash and unconverted wood. Carbon Gold would be the people to ask for an informed opinion.

A good suggestion, and a system used by the charcoal heavyweights. Treewood charcoal have a static kiln with boiler plate charge chambers and Tregothnan (excuse my spelling) estate in Kent have huge retorts inside shipping containers. The problem Treewood have, besides warping, is the heat up and cool down times are very long due to the large metal mass. I don't know how Tregothnan get on. I may be setting myself up for some stick here but I think it would be really good if charcoal and other woodland products could be viable as cottage industries, benefiting many rather than the few who can afford to invest in huge machines manned by one or two people churning out huge quantities. Small is beautiful! Perhaps if wood could be transported cheaply enough then Difflock's idea could work on a cooperative basis, with several people owning and using the single large kiln? Now where's my daisy chain gone?

Interesting! I was aware of the viper, but not this one. As Mr Timbernut points out the issue with most retorts is excessive cost. To produce something that can tolerate the extreme heating and cooling you end up with a very costly machine. My other main charcoal customer 'Treewood Charcoal' spent mega bucks on their double chambered pressvess retort and even they are having warping issues, among others. Bridgebrooke, who produce hotties compressed logs had huge thick stainless retorts made up to produce their 'barbies' charcoal ( which they elected to call lumpwood charcoal:thumbdown:) Even those warped. I think that until someone has a major breakthrough and produces an affordable non warping kiln, the best you can do is get one that is designed to be simple and easy to work on. In my view, despite it's shortcomings, the exeter is the best retort option available at present.

Hi hedgesparrow, I agree, charcoal is a good option for overstood hazel. It is generally considered a bit of a nuisance by most woodland workers, but I think it makes the best charcoal (perfect size, fairly dense and holds together well post pyrolysis). Hazel is also the best for the glass like tinkle you achieve with quality charcoal, it positively sings as it emerges from the retort! You are lucky to have the Hampshire Coppice Group. If we tried to set one up in Suffolk we would have about two and a half members. You will almost certainly be aware of Alan Waters. I would seriously recommend bending his ear on this. He has done far more burns than anyone else in his exeter retort, and I believe was able to access significant levels of funding. I think his and Jo's 'Charfest' is coming up very soon.

Thanks for the suggestions. Browns are a bit too expensive for a humble woodman. I'll try microplant. Anyone used them before?

Hi John, Of course, you are more than welcome to come and visit. I'll pm you my phone number, just give me a day or two's notice. Regarding by-products, I haven't tried any resinous softwood in the retort but it would be interesting to give it a go. I know in the past it was all about the wood vinegar (tar), the charcoal was basically a waste product. The retort produces way more wood gas than it needs to sustain itself. I believe it is possible to condense this down by diverting the gas down a long metal tube. Whether this would produce the right stuff I know not.

I took it to them, but I think I missed the boat on the courtesy tractor. I'll file the idea away for next time Jon.

Hi Jon. That is a good idea which I didn't think of at the time (a courtesy tractor!) Riko are a long way from me unfortunately. To be honest, I hadn't appreciated how much I would miss having the tractor.

My alpine tractor decided (against my wishes) to part company with all its hydraulic fluid a couple of weeks ago. It is currently receiving treatment from the good chaps at Riko. I was wondering if anyone knew of a good place to hire a compact tractor from for a week so I can fetch all my small diameter wood for charcoal. A small kubota or even a little dexta or similar would be ample, just pulling about a ton at a time in my timber trailer. Somewhere in Suffolk would be preferable. Many thanks TVI.

I have a friend who has used a riko fast tow in the woods for years. He is a very experienced woodman and rates the trailer highly. It's not perfect for the woods, but coupled with its road options makes it very versatile. I very much doubt however if he would even consider using it in the wood behind a 4x4. I think you would find that a very frustrating experience unless your tracks are superb.

I waste week's of my life researching and pondering which machine would be best to help with all my woody tasks. I am often seduced by various specialist vehicles, but when common sense kicks back in I always come back to the tractor. In terms of versatility and keeping your options open in uncertain times, you can't beat the humble tractor.

Brilliant:thumbup:

Hi Ben, I have softwood too if you want it?

No worries, I'll stash the best china back in the attic.

Well said Goaty. I should perhaps also point out that I also had biochar in the back of my mind when buying the Kiln. It is not viable to produce this product yet, but I am hopeful that before too long it will be worth more than BBQ charcoal. I won't go into too much detail on biochar as I have my fingers burnt by non-believers on previous threads, but I think it is a really exciting prospect (there is loads of info on the internet). The Exeter retort was actually designed to produce biochar. Luckily it is also pretty good at lumpwood charcoal!

Hi Iain, I have been trying to set up a similar system in Suffolk. I thought it would be a no-brainer for the firewood guys but I really struggled to find reliable partners. I'm on my forth chap now and am hopeful that things will work out but I will be doing my own log round too to diversify my options. Would be interested to hear how you get on.

Hi Woodworks, I only use the small diameter wood for charcoal that has no other obvious use. This thread probably gives the impression I do nothing but churn out charcoal, but the vast majority of the wood I harvest goes for firewood. My main interest is the overall management of the ancient woodland. Making charcoal means I am wasting less of the woodland resource and it keeps me out of trouble in the summer when I can't bear to pull on the chainsaw trousers.

Once again, very interesting comments. I have definately observed a greater volume of charcoal from more thoroughly seasoned wood. I sell by weight so it is not too relevant, although you would think that the dryer and more 'carbon dense' the charge the better. More end product and a quicker burn. The designers of the exeter retort have had the char tested for volatiles and it was found to be surprisingly pure.I would be over the moon if I could achieve a 40% yield but charcoal quality is very important to me. I know a lot of the imported charcoals are heaving with un burnt off volatiles as the poor sods who make it are paid by weight and have to produce it 'under charred' to try to earn any kind of living. Interesting that you mention the benefit of retort charcoal being easy to light. I am working on a new easy lighting British charcoal product called Barbecube with my partner's sister. She has got it into the co-op and possibly soon Waitrose. Amy is actively searching for UK charcoal suppliers and she pays much better than bioregional who should have been ashamed of themselves! I believe the embryonic website is up and running. http://www.barbecube.co.uk

A few pics from today's unload and re-load. Uploaded them all by myself! This is the same kiln load as the previous pictures, you will note how much volume is lost. This is partly down to the fact that the Ash wood I am using is not fully seasoned. At the moment I am averaging 3 very full barrow bags per burn, each weighing 50kg. I sell them like this- ungraded- for £1.10 per kg. There is a huge market for British charcoal and if you were less lazy than me and decided to grade and bag you can get around £1.50 to £1.70 per kg. As stated before, charcoal won't make you rich on it's own but the nature of the process allows you to do other work simultaneously. Whilst the pictured charcoal was cooking I was in the mini digger clearing the old concrete bomb pads in the wood (relics from the war).