Bolt

Stubborn? How rude. I am bloody minded, I will have you know. I have no interest in changing anyone's mind (fwiw). I just wanted to take the all fun out of peddling political propaganda on an Arboricultural forum. I think I have managed that. I am biased I know, but in my opinion, this thread, although 'active', has not gone the way the op intended. Here we are, taking the mick, and spreading ridicule. Where has the op gone?

You can't argue with him, simply because he won't answer a question. You ask a basic questions, and he replies with a statement. He may as well be a politician. Hmmmmmmmm, I wonder if he would be interested at gaining office at Tower Hamlets (although considering his earlier Tower Hamlets faux pas, I should think not).

OK, so all that genetic diversity did not float your boat... this one is far more up your alley. What have migrants ever done for the UK. #2 They saved the NHS, and made it what it is! Yep, this is going to be a shocker. Migrants SAVING the NHS!!! that can't be right. What on earth has the Daily Mail been playing at????? You can't trust anyone. Well here is my hypotheses. I have done the minimal amount of research, so you should be able to have a good smash at this! Migrant workers have been saving the NHS since 1949. That's about a year after it was founded. (I have chosen the NHS in order to 'turn your argument back in itself') Here is the logic... The NHS is publicly funded, and free at the point on use. This 'free at the point of use' idea is I think the cause of your concern for the NHS. Clearly someone cocked up right at the beginning with this concept, but luckily, migrant workers have stepped in and saved the day, right from the off. How annoying is that. Yep, right from 1949! In order to allow costs to be controlled and service provided, successive governments have recruited staff for the NHS from abroad since 1949. The details are easily available. Governments has spent millions on this as it provides a cost effective way of staffing the NHS at all levels, from bedpan emptier, to consultant surgeon. They have spent millions on recruiting overseas to not only save tens and tens of millions over the years on the wage bill, but what is more, they also fill the jobs that the 'native population' just won't do. Won't do now, wouldn't do back then. Millions, and millions and millions saved! Migrant workers have been saving the NHS since 1949. Without them there is NO WAY that the NHS could look like it currently does. That's the NHS that you hold sooooo dear. OK. That's my research done, lets go for the 'first hand experience' bit Naturally it is only the non-taxpaying migrant users of the NHS that concerns you. Are they all here for health care tourism? I wonder what the typical aliments are that they suffer? The reason I ask is that I frequent hospitals quite often (A+E and wards). Here is what I see... A+E... Lots of chavs and white trash who have got pissed up and injured themselves. Their behaviour is colourful, (but understandable due to their genetic heritage). I don't think they are net contributors to the NHS to be honest. Wards... generally white middle aged men who haven't looked after themselves, or white workers who have got injured at work. NHS Staff... all grades, the majority i think you would refer to as 'migrants'. Of the hospitals i have been in (in cities with high ethnic diversity), I really can't remember seeing that many 'migrants' lying about in beds. Maybe they are out-patients? So, there you have it. Migrants SAVING the NHS. NOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooo.

OK. I respect your 3, but I have only been playing for two and a bit days. My hit-rate is right up there.

As you haven't ripped through my post "What have migrants ever done for the UK. #1" (bottom of page 14,) in the style of a '46 Ford ripping through a Delorian as if it were tin foil, do I take it you concede the points i raised? You were originally up for an additional two reasons. I thought it best to drip feed 'em.

What on earth do you mean petty? I have 'won two days', you have won none. The rational observer would choose me.

First, I must admit I ridiculed you a bit, which was rude of me. Then you mentioned the adult debate, and I thought 'well, what the heck, could be a bit of a laugh'. I do find though that having a debate is not easy when its all one sided. Twice you have said you that you were going to reignite the debate, and each time you have failed to engage. You ask a question, and I give an answer. I generally slip in a sneaky little question of my own, just to keep things moving along. Unfortunately, at this point it always fall apart. When I make a 'sub-standard argument' you ignore it. For you this is the WORST thing you can do. Have a debating hint for free.... When you ignore my 'sub-standard argument' if gives the impression to me and any unfortunate soul that has crossed this thread that you are completely stumped and can think of no answer, no come back, no killer response. When I ask one of my 'badly phrased questions' you ignore it (even if you include my quote in your post) and make a different point. What you want to do (and I shouldn't really be telling you this, but I feel sorry that I was rude earlier, and your thread / debate has become a bit of a disaster for you) is to take my post, and ruthlessly take it apart line by line, savaging my naive ideas, disproving my poorly presented facts, destroying my heart felt content and leaving me in a state of shock, shame and embarrassment. Ignoring me does not forward you position. No on else seems to 'debate' with you. If you wont engage me, maybe you should try somewhere else? How about you have a quick skim through the last couple of pages (no need to go too far back, eh) and see how it goes?

I asked you ages ago for when the no-migration golden age was. You ignored my post, which is not surprising as it is how you operate. Do you really think that this exact point of time is the point when we should pull up the draw bridge? These arguments have been churned out for decades. Were all you predecessors just crying wolf when they said that the current set of migrants were going to destroy our society? If so, that's a bummer. Cheers guys. You seem to have your stock phrases and you just keep wheeling them out. I must say though, that although you appear to find genetics, anthropology and evolution bizarre, I cannot claim credit for them as they are generally considered as scientific fact. Amazing eh? The things you learn if only you can open your mind.

Errrrm, I dont mean to worry you but, erm, Labour. They are not in power at the moment. They haven't been in power for a little while now to be honest. Sorry

I think you may have gone off half cocked on this post.

What have migrants ever done for the UK. #1 Genetic Diversity. Migrants have provided the UK with a world beating genetic diversity. The DNA of every brit can be traced back to peoples from all over the world. If you get your DNA tested, it will probably worry you as you will not be as 'Brit' as you think. Some 'societies' spurn or are scared of genetic diversity. You may differ, but I think shagging your cousins is not a good thing, Hybrid vigour? that is a good thing. Britain has always been choc full of hybrid vigour. Hybrid vigour leads to change, leads to progress, leads to advantage. I can understand why some people may be afraid of this, but that is why migration has always been good for the UK. As an aside, consider the diversity of the kids putting themselves forward for young mayor of tower hamlets. Look how smart they look. Look at their confidence. They are striving forward towards a career in politics. They will make your future. They will not be selling big issue, or spitting in the fries in McDonalds, or watching Jeremy Kyle in a stained pair of Y fronts. That image was a tragic own goal to the 'all immigrants are rubbish' argument. Of all kids in the UK, why are people in the UK why were these kids singled out to 'scare' us? Here is the rub, and maybe it explains the difference in your concerns for the UK and mine. The Britain you move in and experience seems to consist of car washers, nail technicians, big issue sellers and fast food staff. Possibly understandably, I move in a slightly different world. I see big business, I see tech firms, I see massive infrastructure projects, I see the education business. The movers and shakers in these firms sometimes don't look exactly like 'us' (I assume that like me you are white, male, and middle aged). You would probably think of them as 'migrants', I just think of them as people. Good smart, dependable people, good at their jobs and true to their word. People who have great ideas and get stuff done. The minds behind those firms, and the minds creating that wealth are going to be pumping millions into the system when you are old and having your ungrateful arse wiped for you. I wonder who will be doing the wiping.

But most of the responses are from me. NO ONE ELSE IS REALLY THAT INTERESTED. If the 'lounge of Arbtalk is slowly dying', I should think it is entirely because of dross like this.

But loads of things puts pressure on the NHS Smoking Riding overpowered motorbikes Binge drinking Industrial accidents Bonfire night Unplanned pregnancy Lack of excercise The Flu. Are you not passionately concerned about any of them? If you are so concerned about the NHS, what do you choose to do to support it? Moan about Migrants? Oh, that's a huge help!

You haven't given arguments though. You have just made statements and then ignored replies and questions. That is not how an 'intelligent debate' works. Of course, my agenda is that I feel you have 'washed up on the shore' of an internet forum that you don't really belong in. That in itself is pretty funny.

That's the spirit. Oxygen of publicity and all that. Thank very much sir, for you kind cooperation.

Why on earth are you bothering to read it. It is the most pathetic thread on Arbtalk ever. It is an utter waste of server space. With any luck it will get deleted once Matelot has lost interest and tried to spark a 'nationwide adult debate' somewhere else. What an embarrassment.

You did not answer this question? Any reason why? Not much of a debate is it? Maybe LIKE EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS FORUM YOU LOST INTEREST. I really hope so.

Where is the faux anger? Where are the substandard arguments? There are no arguments, this dopey thread just contains me answering your questions, and you not answering mine.

What is with the troll comments. Have you got some kind of troll complex? Do you come to this forum just to try to get people to call you a troll. How strange.

This is why I think immigration is not just a good thing, it is everything. I don't think you will understand what I am getting at though, which is a shame, as it explains the fundamentals of why the British are as they are. Those Viking, Roman and French invaders are right there, right in YOUR very DNA. How does that make you feel.

I accuse you of not answering posts. I think you read them, but them you seem to forget them really quick.

Yet again.... ...Its your thread, and your 'informed adult debate' and yet it is me that does all the heavy lifting. this is so on sided, but I will indulge you for fear of shutting down this farce of a 'debate'. Note though, I am indulging you and only you. NO ONE ELSE, as NO ONE IS INTERESTED IN THIS RUBBISH YOU ARE ON THE WRONG FORUM

You 'think' a lot of things, but you never back them up. I wonder if you have a view that is formed, or are these thoughts simply passing whimseys that pop into your head? This thread may have gone better for you if you had allowed your ideas to form properly before posting them.

I don't think anyone has passed any comment on the CH4 ident show (whatever that is) in this thread. I haven't seen it as I don't have a telly. Telly is all brainwashing rubbish. I think the whole thread alludes to the problems of watching too much of 'the idiots lantern' to be honest.

It is as if you haven't read a single thing I have posted. You have asked me three times now why I think immigration is good. The first time you asked me I answered you within minutes, then you COMPLETELY ignored me. This is not 'a proper debate', it is a boring monotonous farce that NO ONE in interested in as you are on THE WRONG FORUM. YOU ARE WASTING YOU TIME. You never answer my questions, you just repeat your previous point and ask further questions. Its rubbish.