LGP Eddie

Hope they share some revenue with the business owners when people simply go elsewhere. Part of Stoke is about to have the same, it’s going to be an absolute tumbleweed only zone, as people will simply find alternatives. You have to feel for the business owners having this stuff inflicted on them.

I’ve just had notification from Bath of prosecution a month later. Didn’t see any signs, too busy trying to stay in the correct lane and stuck in the traffic chaos due to roadworks on a major bridge. Said to my Mrs, nice here, we’ll have to have a weekend, and I’ll be down there working anyway after Christmas. No surprise in that I’ll not be visiting town, and will stay Wiltshire side to avoid driving through again. We pay enough already for driving without this load of shite lumped on top.

SWB low roof Transit MK7 AWD with 50mm lift and BFG All Terrains all round would be an ideal candidate to run an iron horse or the like in the back, and be one handy setup. Brilliant steering lock on them too which saves driving miles to turn a double cab with rudder around down a track. Best move I ever made was into a panel van for my own uses, far more useable space, much better on distances. They can double as a bit of welfare/workshop facilities too which is handy if working remote. The MK7 Transit still has a good few years left in them, most places can fix them and parts are readily available new/used.

Can’t see insurers doing anything on Trailer towing with regard to training requirements for ordinary users, but it would be very simple to split off towing entitlement into an add on that you were charged extra premium for should they see an increase in incidents. The database is all there if drivers are stopped to see if they’ve paid the additional premium, although as we know many think actual insurance is optional anyway. Employers should check any restrictions they may have applied to policies like ages, and they have a duty to provide some form of training as it’s work equipment. I’m no fan of the ticket for everything, industry riding on the back of everything, type culture, but a full day for a trainer to do a few guys shouldn’t break the bank and you may just learn something. Eddie.

I doubt it. A cscs card is just a health and safety training scheme. If it's on your licence why would you need training. Because it’s Work equipment if you’re an Employee, and the Employer has a duty to ensure you’re properly trained and competent to operate it. A good example is a Tractor, your car license covers it, but if an Employer lets you near one they have to ensure you’re adequately trained. Not saying Employers will, but the point regarding insurance is valid and how the CPCS cards for Plant Operation first gained traction, with Insurance companies insisting Operators had it. Why as an insurer wouldn’t you insist on training of employees it’s a straightforward no brainer to reduce your risk, on paper at least, as almost any training competency can be purchased without much requirement to do the training if required to tick the box. What you do in your own time or setup is totally different. Having Trailer and 7.5 tonner given to me without training, never did me any harm, and it’ll cause some shake up in certain areas of business, as 2.6 tonne Diggers, and 3.5 tonne Chippers, and Ifor Tippers, get on everyone’s radar. Eddie.

Client has to be responsible in both instances, you can only offer a sound solution to mitigate the risk, and give a very worst case scenario price per m2 to replace the Tarmac if it came to it. Merlo running on 75mm thick timber bog mats where access is required and put it on 200mm thick crane mats where it sits. Plenty of pictures before and after. Timber mats aren’t huge money to hire, haulage being the main cost, the Merlo will unload/lay them for you and you can use the same track to get trailers etc in for heavy stuff. It’s one for a pot of tea for all involved, it needs a common sense solution, but for yourself only take on the risks you’re paid for.

Try Richard at RG Blakey Forestry, has some great setups and top guy, but I imagine pulled out the place considering the aftermath of the storms out there. Eddie.

Both just cans of worms nobody wants to get involved with. It is however certain to be evidence if you’re paid this way, that indicates you should be running White diesel on such projects.

If I have Red in and the site requires White it’s got to come out, and in theory you should do the Filters. The other way around you can suck the White out to save it clean, or just crack on and put Red in and contaminate it, the Filters won’t matter that way around. As I said before, I can’t guarantee any client it’s not going to have some contamination. I don’t make this shite up and Bob makes a brilliant point, seemingly nobody has got organised to push back against any of it being implemented.

You’ve not seen the official guidance that actually said if you’ve machinery that will have to run on both Red and White at times and will involve a lot of flushing tanks/filters, you should consider purchasing additional machinery solely to use Red!! Honestly you could beat these bastards with a piece of blue water pipe until you got bored or your arm fell off!!

I think you’re perhaps a lot bigger concern than many Bob and can ride out cashflow easier than some. It’s a diesel debate and my only reason to reference the CIS and VAT is the fact it’s establishes a clear link that the work is Construction if the payment falls under the CIS scheme. If they dip you using all the machines on Red and you’re paid through CIS, it’s certainly almost impossible to argue the work isn’t part of a Construction scheme and you should have used White. I certainly don’t want any of it, I just want to offer clients a good service, deliver the work and get paid everything I’m due without chunks coming off it! Eddie.

It may be a big deal when they dip all your kit doing the clearance work running on Red, and you’re trying to prove it’s not a Construction project, and claiming it’s Arb or Forestry. If it genuinely isn’t Construction they can pay you gross with VAT outside of CIS no problem. I’m pointing it out because it’s reared it’s head for the first time ever for me this year, and now on the increase rapidly. As I explained it’s no issue to me the whole Red Diesel scenario apart from the theft/damage issues. Clients will have to supply their own fuel (nearly all do anyway) and they choose what fuel to put in it. Default is Red, if you want White you pay for the filter change and tank drain, and I have no way of ensuring that it may not be slightly contaminated. I also know a few smaller outfits who’ve been caught real bad by clients who only announce it’s reverse VAT and CIS after the jobs been done, and they’re not setup for it. Put your invoice in and find they’re not giving you the VAT you’re asking for and another 20% off the invoice as well on top. What you’ve planned for coming back in is an awful lot less. Yes it all works itself out, but you’ve no VAT coming in so to speak, but have to keep shelling it out on everything you buy.

CIS and Reverse VAT is coming out of the woodwork on all sorts of projects as things tighten on Clients side. I would think it extremely difficult to justify running Red if you’re paid in this way. I’m just letting my own clients make the decision what fuel they want as they’re paying for it anyway. Last one from me, it’ll just run forever, but here’s just one example of a CPCS, LGV Tractor Driver. 4 months ago there were ads everywhere, but slowing now until spring no doubt. Some won’t be charging that for a Tractor and man! Eddie.

That’s how I’d love it to stay!! Once they’ve got you on the CIS and Reverse VAT, try saying it’s not a Construction project then when they dip you and find Red Diesel! I’m letting my clients decide what fuel they put in, if they think it’s Forestry and fill it with Red, then they won’t be stopping me Reverse VAT or under CIS? Can’t have it both ways.

This was part of my original reply, with regard to the increase in projects suddenly going CIS and Reverse VAT. If that’s the case it’s Construction, you’ll be into White Diesel, and all the Tractor would certainly fall under the commercial regs if you drive it there. Hence the big surge in needing Tractor Drivers with CPCS and LGV licence for these big projects and the crazy money they’re having to pay for them. You can’t get Truck Drivers anyway, but you’ve now got to find one to come off the road and get themselves a CPCS Tractor license too! Rates available for such guys are seriously good at present. Only other solution is low loader to site, run it on White Diesel and keep it off any roads. Yes you may see more going Forwarder based Chippers for site work.

Swinny I think it’s Red diesel for you too, and certainly yours seems a straightforward example of Tractors doing Forestry. I wouldn’t however be surprised at all to be proven absolutely wrong by the next post. Doobin hit the nail on the head a long way back, we need a test case (probably several high profile ones) or better still a proper review of the whole lot! Let’s face it the rules are from when Tractors had the same horsepower as the average modern Fendt starter motor!!

They had the opportunity to ban Red diesel use right across the board and then have Agriculture claim a rebate back in relation to their farm size. Thus preventing people with a few acres running a fleet of kit off it, and claiming Ag use for it all. This would have reset things a little bit on all levels, as Tractors on white and no way to claim anything back will soon have guys looking for other solutions, they’re so thirsty. Those simply farming wouldn’t be penalised at all.

Absolutely and if it’s for them applications you can use Red Diesel as normal.

I bought a monster Westtech version, but the job never came off and I had the laughs of watching them dancing around huge stumps with a root rake my Liebherr would have sheared and plucked out for fun! They then get ever increasingly big Mulchers to deal with the huge whole stumps they’ve managed to drag out and windrow, with all associated wear and fuel costs. A stump shear is a total no brainer, that’s what is made to do, shear the stump, make it easy to remove, ensures most of the soil is left behind, and you can keep sectioning down into nice Mulcher size pieces. It takes a huge amount of strain away from the base machine and ensures far better productivity from a Mulcher, or in many cases the material becomes manageable with less specialist kit. Funny how they’ve all started to buy them now! Eddie.

This is where I and literally anyone else including just about anyone in authority will come up with a complete range of answers and it ends up being labelled a grey area!🤷‍♂️ Things like, Your car licence wouldn’t be valid for the category commercially. Tacho and Digital Driver Card LGV Licence Driver CPC Taxation Category White Diesel You’ve then got the actual setup in terms of speeds, brakes, weights, steering, etc etc etc. As Doobin said a test case to clear the lot up would be fantastic, but it’s been going on that long it’ll seemingly never end and we’ll never get clear guidance.

It hasn’t, but you need to do an awful lot more than put white Diesel in it for many applications outside of Ag/Forestry.

Why would you put white in it? Basically admitted you think it’s not Ag/Forestry use, and the lid is off the can of worms then.

If anyone was ever serious about making a start it’s a way that legit users aren’t particularly penalised, and those winging it know if stopped they’ll have a lot harder time than the blagging that goes on now. For the authorities it gives a clear way of making it worthwhile to stop setups even if not hugely experienced in the legalities, and call in someone to go through the setup who is. Will never happen, and it’s seriously tempting to get a Tractor again with this Red diesel job coming on. Eddie.

Exactly, if it was from his land to his land there’s no issue He won’t have put the exact (remember we’re down to 3 metres x 3 metres now technology readily accessible) location, and if caught coming off the site or nowhere near a realistic route he’s banged to rights there and then. Remember some of us have to do this now to move kit we’re paying an awful lot to haul legal and plan around giving them two days notice to do it. If a Farmer needs to move his 8 tonne machine down the road to a ditching job on Red with his own kit, no tacho, operators licence, lgv licence, digital drivers card, driver cpc and commercial insurance etc, then 5 minutes on an app and £20 seems quite reasonable for the convenience in my book? Eddie.

It doesn’t really sound a solution to what you’re after, it likes a nice flat faced stump ideally under it’s maximum diameter, It really is a one shot job then, and very impressive too. If you’ve a big site you need to tidy up and Mulch, leaving a 14 or 20 tonner with one of these to give all the stumps a hit first is going to see the Mulcher Operator being one happy guy! Same goes on Forestry sites, literally minutes to take all the stumps down flush on the main routes but still leave the guts in the ground, rather than ripping the stumps and making it soft. It’s got it’s place, and even on a Long Reach machine just to see stumps under the soil on slopes rather than pulling them out with the resulting disturbance, it’s ideal. Justin Kingwell may hire them, but I’m not certain, he may just have them for his own use. Try and get to a demo or hire before purchasing. Eddie.