tommer9

Thats what you think....just you wait:lol:

Hi chickem. Welcome to arbtalk. Having read your other thread, regarding your boundary tree, I hope you find the help you are after here!

Honda honda honda honda honda........ I like hondas BTW.

Nice one Justin. Hes incredible isnt he!!

Crumbs. That would worry me it has to be said!! Get onto the council environmental planning line first thing for a bit more advice too!! I think you are in an area of outstanding natural beauty there. That might hold a bit of sway? Devon’s Protected Landscapes 0845 155 1015 is the enquiry number i think, but more local members could possibly furnish you with better ones. Criminal damage?

Because it is BELIEF. Lets say that someone actually 'found' heaven.(this is a fairly simplified internet forum versin of things- I would talk about this for days on end in a pub or what have you:001_rolleyes:) then it would be quantifiable, it would have limitations- human influence would find fault- everyone's version in their minds eye of whta god or heaven or jesus is like is different. It is a belief in the unproven that keeps religion alive, along with fear and false promises. This is why it disproves the existence of god. Proof of god will itself destroy religious belief, as faith RELIES on a boundless love and universal existence, both themes which rely on a lack of proof. The manifest and contradictory versions of religion prove my point here. On an even baser level, if we go back only thousands of years, before christianity was prevelant, and examine the origins of this particular faith, and look at what was in place before, we see that people believed in tangible things- life, death, the seasons etc etc, and had a full and true understanding of our place in the world around us. Then the politically powerful needed to replace what was celebrated with another system in order to run the country (cardinal wolsley was ultimately a nasty politician using the auspices of God as a lter example) and start to control the financial and social aspects of populae. So beltane became eater- spring, the rebirth after winter, was translated into the rebirth of Christ......the winter equinox of the 21st december, the TRUE new year, was translated into the birth of christ etc etc.... My point, before i write a thesis and bore you all to tears with my ramblings (my recently leg-amputated dog has just disappeared, i have to go) is that religion is not a truth at all, but little more than a form af attempting to explain what has no explanation, and to try to justify an existence which is just a survival trip amongst a load of chemocal ractions. Afterlife- yes it exists...I will die, become organic matter, feed the roots of palnts etc etc and be reborn as a chemical additive which anothe lifeform will feed on etc etc.. sorry- i really have to go, reluctantly, to search for my dog. I really hope this most interesting of threads is still here tomorrow. Thanks to the 2 butlers for the super debate, and the others too:thumbup: catch you in a bit:biggrin: i hope ill be back lol

Man made god. Man did it to be able to control society in the beginning.

and this is the crux of it all, and yet also the proof that god doesnt exist.....there is no meaning to life, unless one needs it through centuries of insecurity and a desire for answers which arent there. Truth is a human concept, as is the desire to know how and why we are here. If those questions are so relevant to the whole universe, then why do all animals other than humans not have the issues we do abiout those topics. Faith and belief themselves PROVE beyond doubt that god doesnt and cannot exist, fo if paradise/ heaven was found and quantified, it would disappear in a huge puff of logic and human failure, as described by the authors of the bible. you have just proven the non-existence of god for me.

You have just explined the existence/ reason behind religious belief. If science was what it is now many years ago would religion have become what it is? The very existence of faith/ belief religion call it what you will totally proves that it is itself a fuuly fallible establishment that CANNOT be proven, and if it was would become even less tenable than it already is.

BTW NONE of my comments are meant to be offensive or personal digs. At all. I do, however, refute that comment, as you attend a church dont you?

To the converted yes. The flip side of that argument is that christianity (or any religion if you like) have a convenient, if slightly tenuous, way of saying 'look- it must be true- He created all this', whereas non believers are happy to accept that it just 'is', and are happy enough within themselves and their own existence/ place in the multiverse that they dont need to question it and have reassurance that when its all over, thats it- its all over. (death)

I have to say, that alth0ough i have a huge theological interest, i am an agnostic (is that right- i believe in NOTHING in the form of a higher plane) and find MASS, ORGANISED religion abhorrent, that is pretty cool of him:biggrin:

To be fair, one would expect a religious group to come out with that though!

If we do play nice, will you promise not to bin the thread......please!

He is.

PLEASE everybody lets keep this from getting heated- I for one LOVE debating theology, and would hate for this highly interesting debate to become another binned thread. I want to cause no offence to christians, and hope that none is taken. I also believe that the strength of both the Butlers' faith will allow them to counter any arguments with civility. I hope also that us non-believers can afford that same respect.

But you cant use the bible as a way of proving or disproving anything- that just doesnt make sense!! Quotiing from a source that the other side of a debate sees as complete fiction is useless in attemting to back up one side of a debate- it holds no water whatsoever, in fact it is as futile as me quoting a philosophers beliefs- which would be laughable....because that is all that christianity is- belief, so therefore cannot be used to prove ANYTHING. At best it is no more than a set of philosophies attempting to find a reason for our exicstence, at worst it is a form of social and intellectual rape!!

Continentals are the endorsed factory option.

According to a book based on BELIEF!!! If anybody PROVED that god existed then religion CANNOT work. It is FAITH in a BELIEF that sustains what are essentially lies and fabrications used for social control, be it spiritual or otherwise. Proof denies faith. It destroys belief. Without faith or belief the christianity, like ANY mass religion, disappears in a puff of logic.

I think its differet times in the same street.

Hook, line, and sinker:001_rolleyes: Forgiven for 'sins' that are made up by religion in order for those same people to blag you into believeing that you are a sinner in the first place!

ONe of the benefits of BFGs is that they are a division of michelin (basically the off road part of the company) and hence have the pedigree of the worlds best tyre manufacturer, with all the knowledge that brings, as well as unrivalled longevity....which is probably why the utilities use them.

referring to the large street chasm the email had this in it: He spent five days, working 12 hours a day, to create the 250 square metre Image of the crevasse, which, viewed from the correct angle, appears to be 3D. He then persuaded passers-by to complete the illusion by pretending the Gaping hole was real. 'I wanted to play with positives and negatives to encourage people to think twice About everything they see,' he said. 'It was a very scary scene, but when people Saw it they had great fun playing on it and pretending to fall into the earth. 'I like to think that later, when they returned home, they might reflect more on What a frightening scenario it was and say, "Wow, that was actually pretty scary."

No probs. I run 16 inch rims, as do all landrover defenders i thnk. Ill call tomorrow. 285/75/16, £137 per corner fitted including before VAT rise. Might give you an idea for your size.

How are they hard to find- your local tyre dealer, or just not available (they dont make them in some sizes). If you like i can check with my suplier....about the cheapest place i have found anywhere, including on line.