Marc

Lets just wait for the official findings, that pic of the bent attachment is an example pic by Petzl of a piece of kit that is now to be retired. Also petzl have stated that they tested the ZZ in off axis and still took sufficiently high loads to make it fail. Let us also not forget that accidents do happen I had a friend fall from 50ft using a common Hitchclimber system after his karabiner became loaded on the gate we must always be carefully to ensure our system are in the optimum. Petzl did not make this over night although there are some things about it that do disappointment me personally like the pulley design.

I would of said the way he is holding the saw posture etc is the best I've seen, nice straight back right forearm supported on leg on the ball of his left foot ready to move if he needs to, obviously knows what he is doing and not some model. Looks like he maybe making a hinge mark with the nose? So back cut will be done uphill. Other than looking like a power ranger in some over priced sporadically good pfanner clothing I'm yet to see a problem.

I've been using them a while takes a little getting used to the opposite movement in the first move of the gate over more trad designs, so far though in all weathers it's been reliable, I've now retired all my DMM biners only using Petzl tri's and the Rock exotica's I hope one day dmm sort their shonky gates fancy ibeam means nothing if they need constant maintaining to keep working right.

The next step by Petzl maybe absolutely nothing as there may not even be a problem with the device, we just do not know for sure and will have to wait for the official response on Tuesday. I think Pezl's reaction has been commendable so let's wait and see and not get to carried away. I think one thing is for sure us ZZ users must make sure we do not allow our karabiners to become loaded off axis potentially overloading the top attachment point, but this is basic practice and taught in nptc basic tree climbing.

Dean you made my day.

Don't get it wrong silky it is a great bit of kit, I'm just being impartial and objective weighing up the pros and cons, Its safe to assume Mog climbs more than me, in the time I've used it I've gone from its amazing to its just a tool and is it better than a hitch. The simple answer is no a hitch is just so versatile and adaptable and the hitch climber pulley is still in my opinion one of the greatest bits of kit made. The ZZ still makes me smile on most climbs it work flawlessly and I will continue to use it and reccomend it.

Had a real big spreading Oak to climb and I really missed my hitch climber, the third hole, v rig or the ability to clip a karabiner to one leg to create a quick redirect, leaving the tail of my rope over a fork for a quick hitch redirect (to annoying with the zig zig because of that pulley, all these little things that made my life easier. I do like the ZZ for the majority of work, but I will be getting my hitch out again soon I think.

Also I imagine these figures are in lab conditions and do not factor in dynamic absorption of your rope and the possible flex in the tree. Although I am disappointed if 15kn is the swl I'd would of preferred a larger margin.

A successful troll is successful!

Where did you see that? Petzl are still only assuming this was the case. From the Petzl statement, "Taking into account the information that we currently know of this incident, Petzl is now conducting a battery of tests to understand the precise causes of this accident. To date, our preliminary in-house tests do not show this potential failure even under high loads (cross-loaded, side-loaded or loaded off axis) of 10-15 kN. We are continuing different testing scenarios to try to understand the failure."

They will if and when they find a problem, at this moment it's just hear say rumours and some rather odd pictures. It reads to me that petzl were approached by sherrils to comment. So lets wait for Petzl to get to the bottom of it and hear and official statement.

Zing it its still the best out there.

It is CE marked and approved for use with ropes from 11.5-13mm, I can't pretend to understand it fully but it appears to me that its not fully CE certified for use as an ascendor, descendor, rope grab or friction hitch..... Which seems odd.

I do not know, I just got it warm then richen the low speed until that sluggish pick up was gone a little less than a quarter turn sorted it for me. You got to let it idle a bit as it seems if it idled for any length of time the pick up was sluggish, so tweak the low needle let it idle then grab the throttle do this a couple of times between low adjustments until you get a response your happy with. I'm no expert though this just worked for me. I think good tuning is vital on this saw.

Interesting! I suppose I'm one of those just assume petzl have it covered. I for one will continue to use my ZZ as is with no redundancy loop. Nearly every other system does not require it stating it as foolhardy not to use one just shows a doubt in the tool itself, if this is this case don't use it or if redundancy is your thing then why not do the sensible thing and climb with 2 systems. Have Petzl been informed or know about the ZZ shredding ropes? This is of greater concern to me at this time.

That's the conclusion i came to from what little research I did. Although to me the performance is the same as a 200t it just gives it out differently, I actually like it performance in stock form. Yeah the pick up was sluggish I tweaked the low speed and now it picks up fine, in fact it screams so hard I'm worried its going to go pop! What I don't like is the fisher price build qaulity!!

No still on the 10mm Sterling HTP aka snakebite. As much as I always try to get something different each time I'll probably get another 70m of Snakebite. Blue tongue I think is the same as the lime rope I'm using now, I wouldn't like it as an access line as 70m is going to be bulky and will not work well with toothed ascenders as the outer is to loose and prone to damage. I don't want to upset the ropewrench guys they are a sensitive bunch, but when I do go to the dark side I'll probably still use 2 separate systems as I just like leaving a separate access line in the tree with its own srt set-up separate from my work system. I do like the look of what Adam uses I think it's Yale kernmaster 11m? Probably worth a punt. Or even Beal antipodes 11m it's industrial access line and because it doesn't come in fancy dancy colours aimed at Arborist you can find good deals. I paid £66 for my 200ft Mammut power static 10mm!! Which I gave to Hugh.

It's a bit of kit it does its job, I,ve always personally disliked ART mechanical devices I'm more of a hitch man, for me the ZZ is the closest thing so far to a being a corded hitch in terms of precision and control and I enjoy using it. Is it better than a hitchclimber set-up........ No, it's just fun to use, and once its worn out and if there is no mk2 I'll go back to my hitchclimber.

Or a passing car catches your throw line...........

I thought that 8oz Protoss sorry I mean throwpod (still think my name is better) was for me?

Hey I'm middle aged and use one! And all you srtwp boys get back to your own part of the forum you got to leave something for us dinosaur rope technique users to have as an exclusive bleeding armwrench users lordin it up as usual especially you Marcus.

I agree, although I think the petzl instruction lack clarity.

Where are you based R.Borist ?

Clearly, but I think you miss the point in what I said earlier and I am hardly the person to deem kit fit for purpose just common sense for my application that I am happy using it, although will not be getting another. I only remembered late last night that I have seen a cinch regularly used as a self belay device become worn at the pivot creating excessive play between the 2 halves not ideal in a commercial climbing application.

Just out of curiosity Alistair what if it was your employee groundie who got injured in this unfortunate event would you still be holding the other company liable? I'm sorry to hear about the whole situation and hope you just dust yourself down and carry which it sounds like you already are.