Andy Collins

I can compete quite comfortably with the gardener type hedge trimmer, even if he is charging half of what I charge. Cos invariably they are not doing a good job, they take far longer to do the same amount and they usually will only take two bin liners of arisings away to comply with the local tip regulations, so they leave the rest for the clients to dispose of????? So in reality there is no real competition, ok there's always the old boy who'll do it for a fiver, but tbh i don't want his clients anyway.

Hedging is a service industry like everything else, so it has a price. Most clients would rather spend time on the golf course than trimming their hedges. Of course there's trimming and trimming (making a complete hash of it). Good money to be earned for a good job well done

No, it's been a bit of a joke every time someone asks it's sparks a debate between Stihl fans and Husky. I have heard good stuff about the new Hitachi range, but no experience. For your needs, a nice little Stihl would be good.

Hitachi, cos Im fed up with hearing the Stihl/Husky debate

Who'd have guessed, Arbtalk @ the APF!!

I can't remember where I was or what I was doing, yet I remember the event as clearly as if it were yesterday, strange. I remember the Libyan crisis in the 80s clearly, I was working on Lakenheath and Mildenhall air bases, and the security suddenly went from yellow to Black alerts. Where two days before we waltzed in and out without showing passes, they suddenly wanted everything in order, at gunpoint.

Yeah but it's like comparing basic superstore unleaded to Super Racing Car Unleaded, it may get you there, but your engine may labour a bit.

At Jonesies show, it was hard to tell what most were wearing beneath all the waterproof layers

Not the best looking sausages Paul, standards have slipped a bit there

A bleedin canoe would have been better

A mate of mine did similar thing at the end of the day. His lad hadn't off loaded the trailer as directed, when he went to the yard to load up logs late evening ready for the next mornings delivery. The large beech rings that were on the trailer rolled too easily and as he took of the tailgate one rolled out onto his foot. One broken big toe. Not big or clever. Whenever in the workplace wear the correct ppe, always, only takes a second to incapacitate yourself for days or weeks.

I think for the level I need that arboristapps will do for now, maybe able to improve on it later.

Nice one Paul, pleased for you

Ignore johnny, he's just johnny

Hmmmm this is not really ever going to go anywhere. My son is an apprentice mechanic with Honda. He trained for two years at college to IMI standards, not enough for Honda. He is currently on a 3 yr apprenticeship, to qualify to their standard as a basic mechanic, then he does another year (if he wants) to be a Diagnostic Technician, then he can do another year to become a Master Technician. The current rate for a Master Tech is I believe £16 p/hr, that will take him 7 years training to attain, he could have skipped the IMI 2 yr course, but it stood in good stead. A climber can train on a 10 week course and is ticketed to work. I'm not saying a top of his game, skilled climber, but a climber nonetheless, so £9 p/hr is about right in the employed status.

I cannot understand anyone wanting to pass on hedge trims, it's bread and butter work that earns a good £. I know it's hard for some to do a good job of hedging, proven iin how much work I've won from others, one being a local "hedge specialist" who doesn't seem to know how to cut a straight line.

Agreed this would be most useful

Allow me slightly adjust my statement then Huck, the majority of climbers are not highly skilled, some are skilful, some are semi skilled and many are hardly skilled at all. I hold two or three climbers that I know personally and have worked with in the skilful category, most I know are semi skilled and one or two I would not class as skilled at all. But they are all climbers. So in my statement I feel justified in my opinion.

Then we are just tradesmen, semi skilled is all we are classed as. As I said highly skilled professionals are a huge step beyond our level. But this is old ground. Why do we in this country get paid less than elsewhere? I feel this is beyond my knowledge and experience, but what has been said above makes sense, I suppose. We pay into a Health system that some say is the envy of the world. Would you rather have more pay and take a chance on whether you'd need a Health Service, I can now honestly say I wouldn't. If you work abroad, how do you get on for health care, if needed? Insurance? Government health system similar to the UK, or private health care, or turn around and come back to the UK and use the NHS?

I think the business owners defend what they are paying out (crap wages according to some) because they have to see a bigger picture. The job doesn't stop at providing you with your beer tokens, your fag money, your training, your holiday pay, all the tools for you to earn your pittance. It also involves a nightmare of red tape, retraining fees, TPO and 211 applications, driving for fruitless hours pricing against 10 other companies all looking to be the winning bidder. they have had a business for decades in some cases, and we are now experiencing one of the toughest economical periods for many years. They all want to still be in business in the future, not just for today. What's better getting £9 per hr indefinitely, or £15 pr hr for a few weeks then getting laid off? The grass always appears greener on the other side of the fence, but it rarely is.

No Paul, you said skilled, and Skip posted later "highly skilled", I'm not having a pop at any one, just holding an opinion. You say you are now earning three times the rate as a subby, but you have to take holidays out of that, and other things that as an employee you would have paid. Don't forget, you go down sick or injured for any length of time and you get diddlly squat, and you may not be able to carry on. A company will usually help you out in that circumstance.

I'm the trustee of a charity, and we looked into doing calendars to raise funds, it was a no go. The costs of production for less than 500 were prohibitive, and we had to sell over 1000 to break even. Short of doing a Page 3 calendar, it was just not feasible. We even had printers who were going to do it at cost to help.

Oh and most have their training paid for by the companies they work for, they rarely shell out of their own pockets, then once they have all the tickets they think theyre the business and can go off on their own. Few have what it takes to make it.

A highly skilled profession is that of a neurologist, a nuclear physicist or an astronaut, not a tree surgeon. It's a semi skilled trade, not even in the same league as a gas fitter, or an electrician. The average tree surgeon will climb more small trees than large, and will only occasionally be in a dangerous situation, and most of those are avoidable with the correct procedures and equipment. A dangerous profession is an Explosive Ordinance Officer, we are not in that league. £9 per hr, on the books with all the benefits and security that offfers, well it's money for old rope. What financial risk do you have? None. What if the client hasn't paid, you still get it. What if the work goes slack? Your boss will usually find you something to do so you get a wage still, even if it means he goes without. Vehicle problems? Not your worry. Of course we are always worth more than we get, of course we are never content with our lot, it's human nature. If you don't like it, try and do it for yourself, most end up quitting and going back to employment, or quitting the trade altogether, the world is full of "I used to be a tree surgeon" types.