Andy Collins

I'm fortunate, I try to only work with "can-doers" and those that care enough about the work and the money to do the job the right and acceptable way. I have had the misfortune to work with those in the past that didn't give a damn, but they weren't in my employ, but someone else's. So I've seen things from many sides over time. I do know that shouting, swearing, punching and abusing staff does not work these days, and from personal experience treating people as you'd like to be treated reaps a better reward. But hey ho, we all have to do as we see fit.

If £600 is what you need to maintain, replace and keep your business afloat, and show a profit, then it's not unreasonable. I know of companies in this district that more than 5 years ago had a day rate of £650 for two and a chipper. Another is currently £840 per day for same. It's not unreasonable, if you have the right client base, market yourself properly and run your self as a business as opposed to someone who loves trees and does it for the karma...man

ApBell, so due to your lack of people skills at that time, you resorted to thuggery to solve the problem? Would you kick your dog when it doesn't sit? When I started out as a groundie, I had an awful lot to learn. I couldn't tie certain knots. My boss at the time showed me, gave me length of rope and when I'd mastered the three knots he'd shown me, I got an extra fiver in my wage packet. He could have just punched me for not knowing them. I'm not having a dig, but you provided an example for me to use.

Carelessness is a human trait, because as a so-called intelligent being we have the fortune of being capable of processing thought and reasoning, therefore not to practise this is either ignorance or carelessness. An animal blundering through the undergrowth is not careless, it knows no better. An incentive does not always have to be money, I paid someone the other day for his days labour, to show my appreciation for his good work,As well as his pay I gave him a couple of pounds of sausages to take home. Little things like this can actually be more rewarding. I do agree that you wouldn't ask for extra for being careful, but as the main contractor, if your guys have done a good job, completed a tricky task inside the time allocated with no damage and you've made good money, then what's wrong with showing a little appreciation? The number of times I've heard "ah but it's swings and roundabouts" doesn't really cut it, it rarely swings the employees way, and always goes round about them, the short days rarely happen, but the long days to finish a job in a day happen far too often, usually without extra renumeration.

I'm sure we all have competition from under-cutting companies, its just the way it is. I wouldn't even look at council contract around here, even if I were in a position to tender, it's like a feeding frenzy of sharks around a bloody corpse, each chopping away to get a morsel. Blow that! People are just getting the work to keep the lads working, and only just breaking even.

No it adds some va-va-boom to the fire

Must admit I binned my cover quite quickly, rattley shaky flimsy piece of junk. The rest of the bench is fine, just that guard. I generally use the old 026 Stihl on it, leave the mount clamped on the bar now rather than keep putting it on and off.

Then there is absolutely no point in doing tree work, it is not viable as a business. Either change trade or change location. All you and you fellow businesses down there will do is spiral into deeper and deeper debt. It's fine to say it's a way of life...but it's not, it's a way to starve.

Work out all your costings, add in your profit margin, and bingo, you should have a price. I'd say around £425 for 2 men, but it does vary, some are more, some are less. Some clients try it on to see how low you'll go, don't fall for it, stick to your guns, however tempting. You don't need to be a busy fool. I worked for a delivery van man today. He has a third of the work he had last year, he is earning the same money. He was doing 120,000miles per van x 3 per year. He dumped the staff, he and his wife drive now instead, average 40,000 miles each, and took on contracts directly, rather than through TNT etc. He has more quality time, the vans are not wearing out so quickly and his fuel bill is reduced. Just an example, less is more

Recycling is a top idea, but refused because of even a trace of oil. They insist on cat litter or sand filling the container, blow that, it's going to be stupidly heavy to move let alone throw in the big wheelie bins sometimes this isn't really very well thought out, this recycling lark.

Contra-charging is all well and good, but you will soon find that people will snub you as an employer. This isn't the highest paying job at the best of times. Another thing, ask yourself why things are getting damaged? Have you priced the job accurately? Are you putting too much pressure on the team? I recall several times we were told the job was a half days work and to get onto the next one by lunch, only to find out that it was in fact a full days work on the first job, we'd scrabbed about and rushed through a £600 job in 4hours, best will in the world, a shrub may get stood on, a plant pot broken etc, so it isn't always totally the fault of the workers. look into yourself, and ask if you are pushing a little too hard? Im not saying this directly at the OP, but to all readers. garden kit, if it's not the money they are working for, what is it? To make the boss richer? Of course people are driven by money.

There is no ideal, a bonus is just that, it's up to the employer to move the goalposts accordingly. When a little more care becomes the norm, give the incentive for something else that needs improving. The idea is to keep the team happy, yourself happy and get things done. A bonus can be started and stopped at the bosses discretion, its not fixed. You can rule your business with anrod of iron, be a complete dictator to your staff, dock wages and all that stuff, but you soon end up with no staff and word will get around that you're not to be worked for, or you can give a bonus for improvements in standards, keep everyone happy and go on to have a thriving business. BUt the respect must be mutual.

Are you on the GM cs100 Wolf man?

The thing is most of us are lazier than these kind of people, which is why its so easy for them. Look around your yard, can you lay hands on a tool and put it in your motor in less than 10mins? Theyll do it in 5. This is their profession, how they make a living, like it or not. They have no emotions about it, it's a laugh, get a grands worth of kit in one evening, flog it on, £500 in the back pocket, for no effort and negligible risk. gene pool bottom feeders? Yes they are, and gene pool bottom feeder will survive when we're all broke. They don't play by our rules, they have their own, we make it easy for them, they punish us. Don't forget, their friend the long winter evenings is coming up, they have even longer to undo that cheap lock and take all our tools.

Insead of the stick, why not try the carrot? Incentive bonuses work. No breakages, extra money on the weeks pay, breakages = no bonus until the costs recovered. Believe it or not, it will surprising how careful people can be when a few beer tokens suddenly appear. Make it clear that the entire team is responsible for the bonus payment, each will then make sure the other is more careful too. If it doesn't work, then they aren't the right blokes for you.

So just think how you can be of service to an employer, with your skills, in addition to being a trainee arborist, you can also help with fleet maintenance, chipper maintenance and so on, these are all costs most of us have to fork ut for, so to have one in-house mechanic is a boon I thinknthat alone instantly makes you more employable.

It's tough, I think it's wrong to deduct from a wage by law. As a contractor you are making the profit from the work, it's your risk. Occasional damage is going to happen, carelessness is a human trait, wanton destruction is different, if any throws a saw or tools in temper and they get broken, there is no excuse for it. But bits and pieces damage I'd say you ride the cost. But make it clear that this damage is not acceptable to you, it could cost you the client and future work then they will be affected. If things don't improve, don't use them any more simples. As for stopping the money for lost spikes 2year aftrer the event, maybe a case for tribunal these days? As for claiming on a subbies insurance for such minor damage... No chance, it wouldn't even come to a fraction of the excess. Let's hope Rupe doesn't see this bit, it's his pet peeve

Doesn't rain here too much, that's why I live here, don't like getting wet!

I think the best ideas come from an amalgamation of everyone's input, then choosing the route that best suits. Try not to be too blinkered, Tony, let others help you make an idea work, and I mean work properly, not fail through misguided "trust". Best will in the world, human nature will lead to problems, try to iron them out before they happen. I love the idea of someone helping others, I love the idea of a loan service, I love the idea of a library of tree related books being available. Perhaps it's something at is needed nationwide, I don't know. I'd hate you to lose your collection to people disappearing with them, at your cost, I think it will make you very bitter very quickly, which would be a great shame.

Ditto what Paul and Andy have said, theyre churning out more and more student to an already saturated Market. Not the colleges fault, they have their own agenda to meet. I would suggest looking to companies like BTS locally, you can get experience and further training, and they are possibly the largest employer in East Anglia, covering both the private and utilities sector. So by all means get in the 10weeker, but have you got any other strings to your bow, some unique selling point that will make you stand out above the competition, if so use that to your advantage. good luck

I've done the oils draining tray thingy, forgot that one. I like the idea for holding open rubble sacks

Im sure like many others, we all accumulate a large number of these containers, but what to do with them all. I'm starting to get a bit of a collection. I use the odd one here and there to drip-water around trees, (having flushed them right out til clean) I have filled them with water as ballast for tarps, but still I get more and more. I hate the idea of sending them to landfill, but what to do?

Sorry I'm back with more "constructive input". Instead of calling it a deposit, call it a subscription, not unreasonable in the circumstances, it's a club after all and you pay subs to belong to any club for the running of it. I feel it does need a fee for the updating of stock, maintenance and replacement, IMO to trust to the goodwill of human nature is at best a little naive and at worst a disaster waiting to happen, but hey I'm covering old ground, which is not really constructive.

It's grammar

Mike Rotch and Carry Mack.