Andy Collins

Very good Tony, well in fact both tony's (or is the plural Tonies?) This info has made my mind up as to my course of action now. Sometimes you get something whirring in your head, and its good to just mull it over and over with others til the mud settles and you can see through again. Be emailing the TO tomorrow and invite him on a site visit, run through all these points, hopefully make a decision based on the info received here, then see that takes me. Cheers again guys:thumbup:

Ditto that, normally I'm in the "fell it!!" camp but this is a different story for me, part of my "awakening" maybe, trying to embrace this new-fangled arbor-ecology stuff, hence directing the questions to Hama, Dave &Co! Top opinions, thanks:001_smile:

Thank you Tony, very useful information. I think my first course of action will be to get my TO on site, and given his knowledge of veterans I suspect he will be advising much the same as yourself. Had the park fencing not been in the equation, I think the tree could have been left to its own devices, with the inevitable demise as a result.

Ok next question, if I go with rod bracing, how many, distance between rods? And, as its in a conservation area, and the trunk would require drilling, and given that drilling is invasive, would i need to notify the TO?

Budget is not really an issue, but I dont wish to do more than absolutely necessary. Its a venerable old tree, I'm sort of leaning toward rod bracing just to help prevent it pulling itself apart.

The dbh is around 3feet, sorry I didnt take any pics from the far side as the sunlight was far too bright, but the crown has reformed quite healthily, though no more than about 35feet high and approx 30feet wide

OK I have this wonderful old Oak tree in a nicely sheltered position. Its still thriving though mucho decay lower down. What I'd like to do is ideally leave it to its own devices, to see its time out gracefully. However, it does have a minor target, ie new park fencing which isnt the cheapest to replace. What I'd like to know from you esteemed gentlemen, is what would recommend to hold the trunk together, or indeed would you bother? As far as tree surgery goes, I dont really wish to remove any growth, as I think it needs all the help it can get. Thoughts and opinions gladly welcomed.

One company I used to work for would give an annual bonus for good work, promoting the business etc, and it could be as much as 1500 quid. BUT, if you broke anything, lost any tools, were late repeatedly or any other reason, this bonus suffered. One poor chap reversed the pick-up and dented a rear panel = no bonus. I'd rather see a slightly better wage, than a bonus scheme at all, as said it is detrimental to good working practice, it leads to accusations of favouritsm, and is bad for general team morale.

I dont expect people to share an opinion on our future, but why oh why cant seemingly intellectual beings manage to abstain from trading cheap shots on forum? Just because I dont necessarily agree 100% with Hama, it doesnt mean I'll disagree 100% either.

Okaaay so where do you see arb heading in the next decade? We are driven by the need for money, and we earn that money by working with trees. I cannot live, in any shape or form, without money as society will not allow that to happen. This isnt necessarily greed, but there are costs in life that money pays for. This year I've planted 13acres of woodland on bare agricultural land, hopefully this will eventually offset against all the trees I have removed in the same time. It will provide work in the future in the form of maintenance, and eventually a renewable source. It will help towards the global dilemna we have created. Does it make me feel good, tbh not especially, but its a start (albeit a late start). I've always had an interest in all things natural, not from a scientific angle, but just a general interest. I'm amazed that I've found ants way up in trees, how long have they taken to get there, how many generations of ant have passed in their quest to get there? Back on track, I see Arb as we know it going into decline as a trade, but I do see that the Arbor-ecologists will get stronger, maybe tighter Planning controls assisting them. So where will this leave me in 10years time, tbh I really dont know, maybe I'll even join forces with the Arb-Ecol. brigade at some level.

[quote name=hamadryad;298453' date=' Nature has a way of adressing such imbalances, it is your choice, adapt and evolve your personal thinking, evolve your minds and embrace your place in the natural world, or condemn your children and grandchildren to living in an impoverished world that may be well beyond repair and redemption.[/quote] I think this is a wonderful dream, an idealistic approach. However, since the invasion of Man, way back at the dawn of our time, we have denuded the landscape for our own gains to the extent we have now concreted, tarmacced and built on so much land we have very little in the way of natural space to speak of. The damage, my friends, is well and truly done. We already live in that impoverished world of which you speak. I honestly cannot see that many will change their ways of thinking to revert things to how they should be. I do feel it admirable that we have people such as Tony strive to get the message through, but greed willl win the day. For example, if I were to recommend that deadwood was to be left for the bugs and beetles, the client would simply go elsewhere and get the job done anyway, regardless of any advice given.

Exactly, and if local government cant afford to make things happens, why on earth would the private sector? The majority of clients do not, and will not spend their hard-earned money on some bug, nor do they care about the bugs. They will support an orang utan project, or save a whale or something, and try to prevent clubbing seal pups, but thats as far as their nature interest goes, they've done their bit. I'd like to embrace the arbor-ecology side of things, but a) I'm too thick and b) I cant see it making money, and thats what business is about.

Tony, the thread, and my intention is not to be negative (may not have expressed it too well) but to make a few observations. I take on board your comments on Arbor-ecology, but how much of this is taught in college? How many (outside of tree work) really care? But generally the (paying) Joe and Joanna Public really dont care about the little bugs and fungi, a tree is just that, it drops leaves in their gutters, blocks their light and so on and so forth, all we do is alleviate their problems and issues. My observations from the last few years say that general tree work has been over-subscribed, over-done to the point that there just isnt the work out there to support the ever-growing numbers joining our forces. I can sell a prune, a fell, even planting and after-care, but I doubt I could sell bats, beasties and fungi to many. So back to my question.....

I'm beginning to wonder, from a point of interest. With many advocating the retention of deadwood in trees, leaving standing dead timber, not removing ivy and all the other fads that arise, I do wonder what there is left for us to actually do when we turn up for work. Maybe charge for advising not to do anything when we get there? Of course we could make dead limbs safer by ripping off a couple of limbs with a fracture technique, and of course if the trees could talk they wouldnt choose to have anything cut off at all, but where would this leave the scores being churned out of college, or for that matter any of us? There is only so much maintenance work that trees require, and in theory that should last around 5years. I do think this may be why tree work is slacker than for many years, an over-populated industry hacking away at every available tree in the neighbourhood til there is nothing left needing doing. Many of the conifer hedges planted in the 70's/80's have now been ripped out and replaced with larchlap fencing, as people realise how detrimental they are to the gardens, and indeed how expensive they are to maintain. Another of the arbs bread-and-butter jobs disappearing.

Saw several 165's at Cheffins auction nr Cambridge, and they are being snapped up by the Europeans and the Africans, much sought after machines!! Many of the local farmers were moaning that the Europeans/Africans are spoiling the market by paying "silly" money for them, but obviously the weak pound is a factor.

Beautiful views there, MiCa, is that an ancient fort in the picture?

I can take no credit for this job, I was a lowly groundie doing grunt work (too thick to deal with the intricasies of such a job) However it was good to work as part of a well-jelled unit, all hands pulling together for a successful outcome, and this job is perhaps one of the highlights of my career. There were far more skilled and experienced people on site than myself, and I looked to them for guidance (quite a rare occurrence at this stage in my life)

We had planned every thing meticulously () The only doubt was whether we could lift out the last few lumps. But bouyancy is your friend, a controlled splash into the water (about 5-6feet deep) then the grab pulls them in the water to float them across to the bank, by which time its capable of comfortably lifting them out. We did have a back up plan, a large forestry tractor with double-drum winch and a large front end loader if things got messy, but it stood idle.

Tbh I have taken a day to post my response, I didnt want to jump on the bandwagon and just slate the work, but hopefully post something a little more positive.

Though I tend to agree with the sentiments posted here, at the end of the day the clents were happy with their work, paid up and probably recommend them elsewhere to friends and families. I do hope the opinions posted here dont put Alderwood off posting future work, and that he takes the criticism onboard and uses it in a positive manner. Many of us do operate in isolation, not seeing how others carry out their jobs. I see the use of Arbtalk to learn more about all aspects of tree work as an important tool in furthering our education, and this can only be a good thing, either for the trees, for safety, and for education. Thanks for posting Alderwood, and please take the criticism in the right way.

Oh and there's more:001_rolleyes: Combined years of experience on the on the job, about 170years, oldest on the job 75ish, youngest 17, and couple of us young pups in the middle. Job hoofed out by 1pm today, isnt it nice when everything goes swimmingly well? Really enjoyed this job, and the old woodsman tales at breakfast made me smile. All the guys are a real pleasure to work alongside.

Day 2 on the Windblown willow, removing the limbs, and the main trunk from across the trout stream. Some days you cant beat having Big Kit to assist, especially when removing Big Lumps

You still practising Liam?

All the Big Boys Toys will be out tomorrow, smallest saw we need now will need a 2foot bar, hopefully I'll think to take some follow-ups as the 88 and the 090 do boat anchor impressions:biggrin: May even take a rod for lunchtime, its a trout stream, so Bio-oil is the order of the day. The easiest bit is out of the way, its just one big slog for tomorrow. If anything drops in the water it will be an absolute cow to retrieve them!! Proper job:thumbup:

Big windblown willow, lieing across the river, split right down the length of the butt to the stump area, and cooling off after a hard day on the tools:biggrin: