DdRT Injuries

[Arctostaphylos uva-ursi]

Well I guess that's me told!

But I don't understand why you consider it to be "pathetic" and "more dangerous". What is your justification for this?

[scotspine1]

Well I guess that's me told!

But I don't understand why you consider it to be "pathetic" and "more dangerous". What is your justification for this?

 

The most dangerous aspect of SRT work positioning is having a base anchor for the entire period of the work thereby always having to keep track of the down rope and it's route to the base tie off.

 

The climber has to focus on that down line distracting him from the task at hand. Add to that the extra load on the tie in point then compare it to SRT top tie or DdRT and you see you've narrowed the margin for error considerably and increased the variables cancelling out any supposed benefits from the ground based rescue.

 

Quick question on this base anchor thing -

 

Would you consider using two separate SRT lines one tied off at the base and one top tied but both attached to you for the duration of the climb with trailing ends following the same route to ground?

 

Also if you're 90ft up a tree 15ft out on a limb and need ground rescued via a base anchor how long does your rope need to be to get you to the ground safely?

 

 

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Edited September 6, 2016 by scotspine1

[Arctostaphylos uva-ursi]

The most dangerous aspect of SRT work positioning is having a base anchor for the entire period of the work thereby always having to keep track of the down rope and it's route to the base tie off.

 

The climber has to focus on that down line distracting him from the task at hand. Add to that the extra load on the tie in point then compare it to SRT top tie or DdRT and you see you've narrowed the margin for error considerably and increased the variables cancelling out any supposed benefits from the ground based rescue.

 

Quick question on this base anchor thing -

 

Would you consider using two separate SRT lines one tied off at the base and one top tied but both attached to you for the duration of the climb with trailing ends following the same route to ground?

 

Also if you're 90ft up a tree 15ft out on a limb and need ground rescued how long does your rope need to be to get you to the ground safely?

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Sorry I don't agree. I am rarely distracted with worry about where my basal rope is tied off. I tend to re route my rope once I have ascended in to the crown such that the down rope is sufficiently out of the way of where I am working. I don't buy the loading argument either as I am unlikely to loading my climbing rope or chosen anchors to dangerous levels.

 

Not sure why I would want to have two srt lines connected to me at any one time. What is your point?

 

I have always found 60m of rope to be sufficient for even the tallest trees I encounter.

 

Sorry if it comes across as though I am preaching. Its not my intention. I am just sharing my views and experience of SRT and what I consider to be some of its benefits.

I just prefer it to Ddrt particularly for accessing the crown. But in reality I am using Ddrt at the same time i.e. as soon as I attach my positioning lanyard.

[jomoco]

Sorry I don't agree. I am rarely distracted with worry about where my basal rope is tied off. I tend to re route my rope once I have ascended in to the crown such that the down rope is sufficiently out of the way of where I am working. I don't buy the loading argument either as I am unlikely to loading my climbing rope or chosen anchors to dangerous levels.

 

 

Hah!

 

Famous last words!

 

Dependent on species characteristics my good man.

 

I may be a dinosaur DDRT dope, but a living one, a relatively intact one enjoying semi-retirement, because I know the limits of applying lateral loads to skinny upright branches of certain brittle tree species, that can't handle it, whereas other species like oaks will. Surely yo realize a base tie SRT system doubles the forces on the TIP, right?

 

Jomoco

[RC0]

In reply to devontwig and Tim.

 

I do lots of pruning, as well as removals.... tall conifers to spreading hardwoods. The maple in the vid actually had about a 90ft spread, for example.

 

So, lets use a pruning situation as an example, starting with access. No need to isolate a limb, just put the line straight through a high point in the canopy and base tie it. Away you go, work that side of the tree on the way up using your 1:1 ascent if it suits, bottom up. If you’re not comfortable with a base tie then you can easily use a sling and carabiner to girth-hitch your rope in the canopy at any given point. Base ties do add some extra risk into any climb, so has to be thought about beforehand and remembered throughout. Its as well that they’re somewhat of a taboo subject, because they seem to getting a healthy respect as a result thus far.... nobodies cutting themselves out of trees yet it seems. The possible force multiplying effect from a base tie to the high point/redirect in the tree needs to be factored in also....but, its really not difficult thing to plan for and mitigate.

 

Once in the tree, its all about navigating the canopy, whether up, down, in, or out. There’s not much else to it. Whether base tied, or using a canopy anchor of some, you have the option of setting the exact amount of line that you require to work the tree. No excess might allow for easy movement or less to no chance of the tail being snagged, damaged or even just getting in the way of the ground workers. With DdRT, there is usually always the climbers rope on the ground in something’s or somebody’s way. Having a chipper anywhere near a climbers excess line is always a major concern too. Canopy anchors/redirects also can also be placed anywhere, without the need for a crotch. 2 or 3 redirects for example can be used to add strength to the working anchor, which would otherwise require additional support lines via DdRT.

 

When using DdRT, the climbers chosen route around the canopy is largely dictated by the need to keep his line free running, free from obstructing branches or redirects in that sense. Friction savers are all the range these days, but at some point, perhaps after your line is rubbing on 3 separate limbs on route to your target, it starts getting like hard work. SRT, on the contrary, can be routed through or around an unlimited amount of limbs and have zero effect on your mobility, because its only you hitch that moves, not the rope. And whats more, at any such redirect, a sling/carabineer combo can be positioned whether to provide a better line angle for work positioning, or lessen a swing in the event of a fall/arrest scenario. The point is being able to access more of the tree without having to re-route.

 

DdRT has some advantage in returning from limb walks as its easier to keep you’re weight in the rope using the 2:1 advantage already in place. You can set up a similar system but 3:1 at any point of an SRT line in seconds, if you so wish. I’ve personally never felt the need for this, but I know some people do. If the limb is descending too steep for me to pull my own weight back up it, I simply click on the foot ascender. Where the 2:1 system fall short is that you’re moving half the speed for the amount of rope that moves through the system. Lots of wasteful arm over arm movement but actually going nowhere fast, an illusion of sorts. The 1:1 ratio of SRT whether inward or upward is obviously more efficient by its very nature.

 

The option of Spur/spike ascenders, chest harnesses and other such SRT specific add ons also offer many advantages....but I just wanted to stick with the basics of climbing for now. Thats all I have to say really.

Edited September 7, 2016 by RC0

[atree]

Who cares one what you climb on.. its up to you and your mind set on how to go about climbing the tree.

 

SRT is fantastic and everyone one is getting into it which is cool,But all depends on the size and spec of the tree.. IMO

 

I still use Ddrt pretty regularly which i find easier than SRT..Just my thoughts

[silky fox]

Great reply.I get the efficiency bit. Like all tree climbing scenarios, safety, wether it be anchor point,branch loading,rescue etc has to be factored into as you say Reg. This is an important thread i believe and has been on my mind all day.

[jomoco]

SRT's fine, SRT's great, no doubt about it!

 

It's just that you experienced blokes promoting it's use to youngsters have been a tad too light handed about also pointing out SRT's inherent limits n dangers, to make real sure no newbies hurt themselves applying doubled forces to a TIP suitable for a DDRT TIP, but not a base tied SRT TIP.

 

Kinda like Murphy's law guys, wipes out lots of folks who ain't as smart n capable as you.

 

Jomoco

[RC0]

Who cares one what you climb on.. its up to you and your mind set on how to go about climbing the tree.

 

SRT is fantastic and everyone one is getting into it which is cool,But all depends on the size and spec of the tree.. IMO

 

I still use Ddrt pretty regularly which i find easier than SRT..Just my thoughts

 

You might care when you get older mate. That was the original point really. I was getting bolloxed, but now ok. The threads just been derailed a little, that's all.

[High Scale]

I only Base tie for ascent, once in the canopy I get the groundie to un clip me, I normally work around the top of the tree double rope, or what ever it's called, then I clip in lower down in the canopy and leave a long leg for retrieval then work the rest of the tree SRT. But sometimes I don't do that.

 

I swap between systems all the time, it's never just one way. I tend to start the day thinking not of rescue in the event of an accident but instead think of not getting myself in a situation where an incident could occur.