Lombardy Fell Incident

[Timber Man]

Hard to argue. Falling a Lombardy in the wind with such a big sail....pretty wreckless stuff considering the location.

 

I agree.

[John Kee]

Hi all, new to posting, although I have been a follower of the site for a few years. When I was getting started I was offered a job by one of the bigger firms. At the time I was working for two small firms raking brash. They both advised me not to go with the firm for the reasons outlined by both Sean and Roc. Shortly after I got a job as a trainee climber with a small firm run by a boss with very high standards, I stayed with them for 6 years and learnt a lot because of the experienced people I worked with. Have been running my own firm back home now for 8 years,

Had a very near miss last year when felling a tree, thankfully no one or thing was hurt only pride and a lot of slagging. But I will never make that mistake again. What I'm trying to say is that as no one was hurt the best thing that can come out of the incident is that if any of them lads go on to work for themselves or anybody else is that they will never make that mistake or a similar one again

 

 

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[White Noise]

Southern tree surgeons aka Bartletts as they are now known . Id say that,s kinda standard for them . I,m speaking from what I have seen and witnessed with my own eyes . Yes I know there,s good and bad in all but heck they always seem to break stuff ? Hope nobody was hurt . Odd how they are always needing new staff ???

[csservices]

Correct, and even though someone may have written RAMS for it to be done that way the man doing the job has the right to question it. In a situation like this surely once you put the saw in the tree you are taking liability on your own shoulders, in any assisted pull the man with the saw has control over the situation.

 

 

This is what I used to tell the lads at the firm I worked for for a couple of years, yes the boss can stand in the yard and say do it x way but when we get on site things may have changed and we have to do it y way but you have to use your common sense, this bit me on the backside last year and was one of the main reasons I left, a lad who I had repeatedly told the boss was a liability due to repeated foul ups badly screwed a tree up, I was off work that day but my name was still on the paperwork and so had to go through the motions on it, brief was strip the 3 or 4 large roadside trees back to standing stems and leave til we had the tractor on site to fell them, 3 ashes and a Lombardy pop ironically, as I was off this man and his mate agreed between them they had had enough of climbing and would fell it, this man couldn't fell for toffee and end result was several thousand pounds worth of damage and him getting sacked for gross misconduct.

[Tom D]

Ok, just to be clear I have never dropped a tree the wrong way across a road, what I mean is if you fell enough trees one day one will go wrong. I have however had one go wrong in the woods (scots pine)one of loads I felled that day. one go wrong next to a school (Leylandii) and one go wrong in my dads garden (Leylandii). All three were small and no damage was done. At the end of the day we all assess risks before felling, even if it only mentally, with small trees that process can be a little breif and sometimes with brittle timber and a heavy side weight or lean things can go wrong. The thing is is to make sure that in areas where a misdirected tree can do serious damage all risks have been assessed and mitigated. Otherwise things can and will go wrong, and the consequences could be severe.

 

In this incident presumably there was a risk assessment which took into account the risks on the site. I would love to see that document. Was pedestrian safety mentioned? Was the wind or species mentioned? And if so what were the controls?

I wouldn't have felled that tree like that, I have felled loads of trees in public places many more public than that, princes street in Edinburgh springs to mind. The method needs to suit the situation and whatever we say about the excecution that method wasn't appropriate at that time. The risks of failure were so high even before they started the saw. That is where experience comes in, knowing when to use and when not to use a particular technique.

 

I would like to hear a response from the AA because I am AAAC and I I'm trying to persuade clients that for tree work contracts AAAC should be afforded similar credit to ISO. This kind of thing does not help my case.

[Timber Man]

This is what I used to tell the lads at the firm I worked for for a couple of years, yes the boss can stand in the yard and say do it x way but when we get on site things may have changed and we have to do it y way but you have to use your common sense, this bit me on the backside last year and was one of the main reasons I left, a lad who I had repeatedly told the boss was a liability due to repeated foul ups badly screwed a tree up, I was off work that day but my name was still on the paperwork and so had to go through the motions on it, brief was strip the 3 or 4 large roadside trees back to standing stems and leave til we had the tractor on site to fell them, 3 ashes and a Lombardy pop ironically, as I was off this man and his mate agreed between them they had had enough of climbing and would fell it, this man couldn't fell for toffee and end result was several thousand pounds worth of damage and him getting sacked for gross misconduct.

 

Perhaps I worded it badly. What I was trying to say was if you are not happy with the RAMS you are quite within your rights to question them and not do the job until it has been reviewed.

[Big J]

As a reasonably confident occasional (though previously nearer to full time) tree feller (forestry mainly), I've felled more trees than most tree surgeons, including some against back leans and side leans with nothing more than wedges.

 

I however know my limitations, and I would never have attempted that fell in those conditions. Felling against a side lean (which given the prevailing wind, this tree effectively has) is always risky. With targets (such as cars and pedestrians) it is quite simply not an option, particularly with a tree species with a reputation as being brittle (I say that reading only what has been posted here - I have never felled a Lombardy Poplar).

 

A competent climber could have strips that down and dropped out the top in an hour or so. If it was deemed that the tree was not sufficiently sound to climb it could have been dismantled by MEWP. However, I do not think that that was the case as they elected to fell from the ground.

 

As a former forestry worker, I know well that trees that go the wrong way (and it's happened to me - sometimes with fences suffering as a consequence). That makes me very tetchy when felling larger trees in urban settings with targets. Caution is no bad thing and the company in the video need to ask some very serious questions of themselves. I'm not sure you come back from that - it's like a surgeon whipping off the wrong testicle!

[csservices]

Perhaps I worded it badly. What I was trying to say was if you are not happy with the RAMS you are quite within your rights to question them and not do the job until it has been reviewed.

 

 

I was agreeing with you 😄 possibly in a roundabout rambling way, RAMS are a backside covering exercise at the end of the day, my point is/was there will always be people who think they know better, I'm not innocent I have screwed the pooch on occasions, one thing I have noticed with willow and poplar felling is how many people won't finish the cut as they start to move early compared to other trees leading to them barber chairing or twisting off or stopping half way over in some cases.

[carlos]

i wonder if they climbed up to install the pull line??

the chipper was also left within striking distance of the fell.

wind- species- location- targets = dismantle.

very lucky no one was hurt.

carl

[born2trot]

Yeh tall lombardys best left for calm days . Direction of pull actually helped pull it across the road . Just inexperience I feel horrible for the guys .