Making the news today....

[the village idiot]

If you mean population growth, that is a much more complex problem to solve.

Edited March 10, 2018 by the village idiot

[Richard 1234]

http://farmsubsidy.openspending.org/GB/browse/
 
https://fullfact.org/economy/farming-subsidies-uk/
 
It ain't the man / woman with there hands on the tools that get the real money....

Are you sure that’s right Kevin? According to matey boy all farmers are worth at least a couple of million!

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

2 minutes ago, the village idiot said:

If you mean population growth, that is a much more complex problem to solve.

Complex, for sure, but surely necessary.  At the point where it is recognised that the population has exceeded the capacity of the planet to sustain it....  

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

2 minutes ago, Richard 1234 said:

Are you sure that’s right Kevin? According to matey boy all farmers are worth at least a couple of million!

That's exactly my point Richard.  There are hard working, tenant farmers, actually producing output... Who are at the muckiest end of the stick in the great subsidy give away.  The system is inherently flawed. 

 

 

[the village idiot]

5 minutes ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

Complex, for sure, but surely necessary.  At the point where it is recognised that the population has exceeded the capacity of the planet to sustain it....  

Unfortunately most people aren't willing to make sacrifices to pass on a healthy planet to future generations. We need to be forced to do it.

 

Unfortunately this comes down to governments, and they don't want to deliver the bad news.

 

Countries will have to work together on this if we are to turn things around. This is the main reason why I find this nationalistic trend so depressing.

[Richard 1234]

That's exactly my point Richard.  There are hard working, tenant farmers, actually producing output... Who are at the muckiest end of the stick in the great subsidy give away.  The system is inherently flawed. 

 

 

It is wrong but it would completely fall apart(certainly for the small farms) at the moment without some protection.

 

Growing up we never were tenants thankfully. (well the bank could be seen as owner!) but that meant the best part of 30 years being poor (dad and grandad borrowed £400k in 1970) once it was paid for he was that fed up of it (grandad dead by that point too! close to losing it quite a few times) he sold 75% and things have obviously been fine since then. A long road though.

It probably makes not far off now money wise diversified and a lot smaller than “farming” it ever did. He’s mid 70s now but won’t dare to stop in case times get hard again (even though he doesn’t need any more money)

That’s why farmer bashing pisses me off (not aimed at you just in general)

[matelot]

2 hours ago, WesD said:

Can you explain how the price of food would stay the same please?

 

Surely with less revenue in the form of subsidy it would have to make up on sale price. 

What would happen to farmland prices if subsidies were reduced? Are they not likely to go down? Lower farmland prices are likely to mean new farmers would need less capital to start their farm.... What's an acre of arable land worth now? £10k an acre? You not think food would be cheaper if it was £2k an acre?

 

2 hours ago, WesD said:

I think the problem with you matey boy boy is you have an I’m alright Jack attitude. 

Really? I'm on here arguing to reduce farming subsidies. That's likely to reduce the value of the farmland/ forestry held by the family company... 

[Richard 1234]

Really? I'm on here arguing to reduce farming subsidies. That's likely to reduce the value of the farmland/ forestry held by the family company... 

I don’t think it would make any difference to land prices. People with mortgages could not afford to sell. Outright owners wouldn’t care.

 

To add it would be tenants that would be screwed again!

 

Besides that we are in the small uk. Not the states or Russia where land is plentiful

 

[john p]

It is wrong but it would completely fall apart(certainly for the small farms) at the moment without some protection.
 
Growing up we never were tenants thankfully. (well the bank could be seen as owner!) but that meant the best part of 30 years being poor (dad and grandad borrowed £400k in 1970) once it was paid for he was that fed up of it (grandad dead by that point too! close to losing it quite a few times) he sold 75% and things have obviously been fine since then. A long road though.
It probably makes not far off now money wise diversified and a lot smaller than “farming” it ever did. He’s mid 70s now but won’t dare to stop in case times get hard again (even though he doesn’t need any more money)
That’s why farmer bashing pisses me off (not aimed at you just in general)

There’s no doubt that the real wronguns are the supermarkets driving prices into the floor, but farmers quite often don’t do themselves any favours, the amount of hangers and branches left in the road after they’ve been hedge cutting round (right, I’m going to stop here as I’ve had one too many gins!).

[WesD]

1 minute ago, matelot said:

What would happen to farmland prices if subsidies were reduced? Are they not likely to go down? Lower farmland prices are likely to mean new farmers would need less capital to start their farm.... What's an acre of arable land worth now? £10k an acre? You not think food would be cheaper if it was £2k an acre?

 

Really? I'm on here arguing to reduce farming subsidies. That's likely to reduce the value of the farmland/ forestry held by the family company... 

So you think the farmers who own the land now would give it up or sell it at a loss or would they put the price of food up to cover loss of subsidy?!

 

Also when we have left the EU and imports have tariffs they’ll have a percentage to play with to undercut food from the EU and still put it up in price. 

 

Farmers will not not take the loss, supermarkets will definitely not take the loss soooooo who will? No one food prices will rise to cover loss in subsidy. 

 

We as the consumer will have no choice but to pay it sooooo many working families will become vulnerable and the price of land will stay the same as due to price adjustment farmers profits will stay the same. 

 

Food is is a necessity we can’t live without it, we can’t just stop buying it because it’s gone up in price. 

 

Lastly if it did sky rocket in price due to loss of subsidy the tax payers, government would have to raise the amount of benefits people receive to allow people on benifits to feed themselves.