Making the news today....

[GarethM]

You can't wheel out the peace process argument.

Bullets and bombs didn't get them anywhere other than into stormont.

 

Swapping one stalemate for another.

 

How did the world function without the EU, the world survived perfectly beforehand.

Edited November 24, 2022 by GarethM

[coppice cutter]

58 minutes ago, Big J said:

By the English and Welsh dragging the Northern Irish out of the EU, they'd inadvertently jeopardised the NI peace process and for no good reason.

Firstly the UK voted as a whole to leave the EU, which it is fully entitled to do, sometimes people act as if staying in the EU was some sort of obligation.

 

It wasn't!

 

Secondly, if you must take the northern Irish vote in isolation, apparently it was about 55/45 so not a landslide as some would have you believe.

 

Furthermore, nationalists largely voted to stay in the EU and made up the vast portion of that 55%, yet they also mainly vote Sinn Fein who have been traditionally anti-EU and only changed their stance when they seen a chance to capitalise on the referendum mayhem.

 

So there were other agendas going on even before the referendum, and that's all been ramped up since.

 

I don't understand the most of what happens over there, sometimes it seems a different world, but I know it's nowhere near the picture painted by the EU friendly media.

[GarethM]

That's a pretty good summary.

The whole in or out of the EU argument is mostly window dressing in the greater scheme of things.

 

In or out, pre EU, during EU, post EU. Nothing is free, we still pay something somewhere be it tariffs, exchange rates etc.

 

There always has been paperwork and always will, even when we were in it wasn't paperwork free.

 

Is the real problem, other than we voted out. That you can't move as freely as you once were ?.

Edited November 24, 2022 by GarethM

[Big J]

53 minutes ago, coppice cutter said:

Firstly the UK voted as a whole to leave the EU, which it is fully entitled to do, sometimes people act as if staying in the EU was some sort of obligation.

 

It wasn't!

 

Secondly, if you must take the northern Irish vote in isolation, apparently it was about 55/45 so not a landslide as some would have you believe.

 

Furthermore, nationalists largely voted to stay in the EU and made up the vast portion of that 55%, yet they also mainly vote Sinn Fein who have been traditionally anti-EU and only changed their stance when they seen a chance to capitalise on the referendum mayhem.

 

So there were other agendas going on even before the referendum, and that's all been ramped up since.

 

I don't understand the most of what happens over there, sometimes it seems a different world, but I know it's nowhere near the picture painted by the EU friendly media.

 

I appreciate the analysis, and as you say, it's wasn't a landslide, but democratically, NI didn't vote for Brexit. 

 

Which ever way you look at it, the situation in NI is not as good as it was pre-Brexit. Unless you are one of the businesses that is capitalising on being within the single market and the UK. But then that is disadvantageous for any other business in any other part of the UK.

 

29 minutes ago, GarethM said:

That's a pretty good summary.

The whole in or out of the EU argument is mostly window dressing in the greater scheme of things.

 

In or out, pre EU, during EU, post EU. Nothing is free, we still pay something somewhere be it tariffs, exchange rates etc.

 

There always has been paperwork and always will, even when we were in it wasn't paperwork free.

 

Is the real problem, other than we voted out. That you can't move as freely as you once were ?.

 

I agree with your overall sentiment. We were once part of a large and powerful club. We now aren't, and we're paying for that, without actually seeing an tangible benefit. 

 

The loss of freedom of movement for UK citizens cannot really be overstated. I don't think that any country in history has ever voted to so radically curtail the freedoms of it's citizens.

[Stere]

They would be better off in ireland its wealthier than the UK now.

[Kimosabi]

So just out of curiosity, what benefits has the UK seen since leaving the European Union 

[GarethM]

Kimosabi, how about instead of just assuming all those "benefits" are free remember those were all paid for in some way shape or form.

 

Just because it's all you've known doesn't make the EU some idealistic land of milk and honey.

 

I don't work abroad, always have that option in Sweden if I wanted. I do import, bit of extra paperwork added £50 to the cost.

Edited November 24, 2022 by GarethM

[Big J]

55 minutes ago, GarethM said:

Kimosabi, how about instead of just assuming all those "benefits" are free remember those were all paid for in some way shape or form.

 

Just because it's all you've known doesn't make the EU some idealistic land of milk and honey.

 

I don't work abroad, always have that option in Sweden if I wanted. I do import, bit of extra paperwork added £50 to the cost.

 

The main benefit, as far as I'm concerned, was the freedom of movement. That didn't actually cost us anything. Quite the opposite - the exodus of EU migrants has left a hole in the workforce, pushing prices up for everyone. 

 

And it's in the news that the year to June 2022 saw the highest ever recorded net migration number for the UK. I know that Ukraine and Hong Kong were factors, but this notion of Brexit being a route to 'taking back control of our borders' is a fallacy.

[Kimosabi]

No, i was simply asking an impartial question, whether we're in Europe or not is irrelevant to me 

[Kimosabi]

10 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

The main benefit, as far as I'm concerned, was the freedom of movement. That didn't actually cost us anything. Quite the opposite - the exodus of EU migrants has left a hole in the workforce, pushing prices up for everyone. 

 

And it's in the news that the year to June 2022 saw the highest ever recorded net migration number for the UK. I know that Ukraine and Hong Kong were factors, but this notion of Brexit being a route to 'taking back control of our borders' is a fallacy.