Making the news today....

[trigger_andy]

26 minutes ago, Mark J said:

Scotland blocked from holding independence vote by UK's Supreme Court | CNN

EDITION.CNN.COM

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Britain's Supreme Court has ruled that Scotland's government cannot unilaterally hold a second referendum on whether to secede from the United Kingdom, in a blow to independence...

"The SNP were always going to "win" this regardless of which direction the courts went: they can either have the referendum, or they can't and it just proves there's no actual democracy. They've played a blinder here."

Nonsense. 
 

The once in a generation referendum has been held. The SNP used the fact that they needed approval from number 10 to hold it and we as a nation better make good use of this once in a generation vote as a major scare tactic. 
 

Well we chose the mystery box of promises from number 10 and instead of freedom we chose to be yoked to England with virtually no say in any matter. 
 

We have had our democratic vote. It’s over for this generation. It’s what we signed up for and it’s what we got. The SNP throwing temper tantrums will and has changed nothing. 
 

It’s worth keeping in mind more people in Scotland voted for Brexit than they did the SNP. They have no mandate here.

Edited November 23, 2022 by trigger_andy

[GarethM]

They were mooting again that the next election would be a vote for independence if they voted SNP again.

 

If the SNP were so confident why can't they raid the donors to pay for a referendum, wouldn't be legally binding but she needs a reality check instead of she-weeing our money against the wall.

[Mark J]

10 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

Nonsense. 
 

The once in a generation referendum has been held. The SNP used the fact that they needed approval from number 10 to hold it and we as a nation better make good use of this once in a generation vote as a major scare tactic. 
 

Well we chose the mystery box of promises from number 10 and instead of freedom we chose to be yoked to England with virtually no say in any matter. 
 

We have had our democratic vote. It’s over for this generation. It’s what we signed up for and it’s what we got. The SNP throwing temper tantrums will and has changed nothing. 
 

It’s worth keeping in mind more people in Scotland voted for Brexit than they did the SNP. They have no mandate here.

Is there a limit on how many referenda a country can have on any given issue?
 

By your reasoning we shouldn’t keep having general elections.
 

The people voted once, that’s it, no more choices and you aren’t allowed to change your mind EVER?

It's worth keeping in mind that more people in Scotland voted to remain in the EU than to leave. 

[GarethM]

Referendum is not changing who runs a government tho is it, it's a vote to literally leave and not come back.

 

Ever few years they wouldn't be asking Scotland, fancy coming back would they.

 

How many times did the EU ask the Irish?.

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by GarethM

[trigger_andy]

Just now, Mark J said:

Is there a limit on how many referenda a country can have on any given issue?

I think the high court ruling has answered that question….

 

1 minute ago, Mark J said:

By your reasoning we shouldn’t keep having general elections.

What peculiar reasoning. You should have passed that soundbite onto Krankie, might have won her the case. 🙄

 

2 minutes ago, Mark J said:

The people voted once, that’s it, no more choices and you aren’t allowed to change your mind EVER?

You do understand the concept of once in a generation right? 
 

3 minutes ago, Mark J said:

It's worth keeping in mind that more people in Scotland voted to remain in the EU than to leave. 

Then they should have voted for independence when they had the chance, huh? Too late now the milk has spilt. 
 

Yet my point stands, more people voted for Brexit than they did for the SNP, yet the SNP claim that the voters have given them a mandate for Indi2 based on the votes they got at the last election. Clearly this is not the case. 
There is not a poll I’m aware of that shows we wish to have another vote on Independence. Everyone is sick of the SNP and their dogged determination to keep pushing for independence instead of sorting out the very real issues we have in Scotland. 

[Mark J]

2 minutes ago, GarethM said:

Referendum is not changing who runs a government tho is it, it's a vote to literally leave and not come back.

 

What about an advisory referendum? Surely that's not so gung-ho?

[GarethM]

I suggested that, but at the SNPs expense.

If she's so confident, she can pay, as the last one cost us English 15.8 Million sterling pounds.

 

Mandatory voting, no if or buts. Minimum 60% for and we'll pay for a legally binding one.

Edited November 23, 2022 by GarethM

[Big J]

The Scottish Independence problem is a question with no palatable answer. 

 

I voted No in 2014. Felt strongly about it too. People in Scotland were told that voting No was the only way to ensure continued membership of Europe. And then England and Wales dragged them out in 2016.

 

Constitutionally, the UK is undergoing a massive and hugely consequential constitutional shift. It's erected a wall of trade barriers around itself and is suffering as a result. 

 

Given these fundamental changes to the very fabric of what constitutes the United Kingdom, it is only fair that membership of this club can and should be evaluated by it's subjects. 

 

So, I feel that Scotland ought to be given the right to once again as the question....

 

But...

 

The separation of England and Scotland would make Brexit seem like a cakewalk. 315 years of integration, a massive land border and each reliant on the other for all manner of things. 

 

Scotland would inevitably come off worst, but the ramifications would be widely felt in England too. 

 

This intractable political clusterfudge is one of the reasons we left Scotland in 2018. That being said, moving to England was, in retrospect, jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire! 😆

 

In conclusion, whatever happens, the Scots are shagged (politically and constitutionally speaking) and are likely to remain so for generations.

[trigger_andy]

5 minutes ago, Big J said:

The Scottish Independence problem is a question with no palatable answer. 

 

I voted No in 2014. Felt strongly about it too. People in Scotland were told that voting No was the only way to ensure continued membership of Europe. And then England and Wales dragged them out in 2016.

 

Constitutionally, the UK is undergoing a massive and hugely consequential constitutional shift. It's erected a wall of trade barriers around itself and is suffering as a result. 

 

Given these fundamental changes to the very fabric of what constitutes the United Kingdom, it is only fair that membership of this club can and should be evaluated by it's subjects. 

 

So, I feel that Scotland ought to be given the right to once again as the question....

 

But...

 

The separation of England and Scotland would make Brexit seem like a cakewalk. 315 years of integration, a massive land border and each reliant on the other for all manner of things. 

 

Scotland would inevitably come off worst, but the ramifications would be widely felt in England too. 

 

This intractable political clusterfudge is one of the reasons we left Scotland in 2018. That being said, moving to England was, in retrospect, jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire! 😆

 

In conclusion, whatever happens, the Scots are shagged (politically and constitutionally speaking) and are likely to remain so for generations.

I voted yes before but now we’re out of the EU I’d vote no now. 🤣

[Big J]

9 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

I voted yes before but now we’re out of the EU I’d vote no now. 🤣

 

Oh how the tables have turned! 

I think you've argued against your own point though. You're citing the fact that the UK's relationship with Europe having changed being a reason you would vote differently now. That's very much the case for many people in Scotland, I imagine.