Show your tractors

[sime42]

Problem solved. Isn't it? The magic dog shit fairy comes along to clear it up, plus the additional plastic pollution.

[doobin]

18 hours ago, openspaceman said:

This was always the policy locally post 1976 but seems to be abandoned now.

 

Since then of course much nitrogen has been added to the soil from vehicle exhausts, coupled with rich dog food it has led to an increase  in unwanted vegetation on the heath.

 

The obvious solution is cut and collect but the wildlife trusts will not grasp the nettle and find an off site solution. It was the days when common grazing removed these minerals (to be deposited on a home farm or abattoir) that formed these heaths.

Off site soloutions (grab lorries, tub grinders, green waste sites) are stupidly expensive and for this reason I don't support them.The most practical soloution in my experience is a dump site on a low value bit of the heath. There's always a nutrient dense corner covered in birch and bracken somewhere.

 

Burning is good in theory but it can be a struggle to burn pulled scrub due to the volume of soil on the roots. And the fire site will always need clearing up thoroughly anyhow. So seems pretty pointless to me given that a well stacked dump site on waste ground will rot down in five years to nearly nothing, whilst providing a habitat for certain things. Basically, I think there's limited money for any nature reserve, so let's not spunk it processing green waste any more than necessary.

 

I do both depending upon what the client wants. Wish I didn't have to bother with the extra hassle of burning though.

Edited February 7 by doobin

[openspaceman]

2 hours ago, sime42 said:

Problem solved. Isn't it? The magic dog shit fairy comes along to clear it up, plus the additional plastic pollution.

Yes, my point is that it is something that cannot be policed, people may conspicuously pick up dog shit if they are being observed but there is no guarantee they will deal with it properly. Also the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005 only requires a dog owner to remove it on "designated land".

 

It has worked well for the piece of grassy verge in front of my house as there is only occasional crap to deal with there but I frequently find my hedge that runs along a footpath to the side has poo bags thrown in it.

 

I will pick up dog shit from our dogs if it is on a footpath, urban openspace  etc but not out in a woodland. In summer it goes in my black bin, in winter in the stove, mind mostly the dogs crap in my garden and that gets dumped in the sewer.

 

 

As with any litter or flytipping the consequencces have to be dealt with.

[openspaceman]

4 minutes ago, doobin said:

The most practical soloution in my experience is a dump site on a low value bit of the heath. There's always a nutrient dense corner covered in birch and bracken somewhere.

Which probably was once heath and will promote the opportunity for the bracken to spread further into the heath as the nutrient status makes it more competitive than heathers.

[difflock]

Let nature nature.

It is not in an immutable fixed state.

That is nature.

It is always changing.

[doobin]

1 hour ago, openspaceman said:

Which probably was once heath and will promote the opportunity for the bracken to spread further into the heath as the nutrient status makes it more competitive than heathers.

Only if it’s not controlled. Regular cut and collect will keep it at bay. Look at roadside verges. 1m of no bracken and then it’s taller than the cars. 
 

Best to sacrifice a fraction of a percent of the worst ground on the site which then pays for weeks worth of work on the rest of the site. It’s a pretty simple cost:benefit ratio to my eyes. Off site removal is insanely expensive. 

Edited February 7 by doobin

[doobin]

1 hour ago, difflock said:

Let nature nature.

It is not in an immutable fixed state.

That is nature.

It is always changing.

Very little untouched nature these days. 
 

Conservation is a human construct of what it used to look like. Basically an open air museum, but the exhibits (rare species) are living. 

[Stere]

Quote

Off site soloutions (grab lorries, tub grinders, green waste sites) are stupidly expensive and for this reason I don't support them.The most practical soloution in my experience is a dump site on a low value bit of the heath. There's always a nutrient dense corner covered in birch and bracken somewhere.

 

 

This is  my thinking more common sense.

 

Seems to me  people hate leaving piles to rot down as it look untidy but I can't see what the problem is with it..

 

Ever do anything with air curtain buners?

 

 

The cost involved in processsing &  transporting tonnes of material many miles offsite to then pay for it to be disposed of at a official recycling centre  seems abit mad.

 

The local one has several  huge mountains  of  & what looks like mainly blackthorn scrub  unchipped   in there yard atm.

 

If not allowed  onsite why not have an agreement with an adjacent farmer to use there land. They spread bought fert on the  pastureland   surrounding the sites.

 

Heath was created & maintained  in the first place since the stone age  mostly just by grazing animals.

Edited February 7 by Stere

[openspaceman]

deleted

Edited February 7 by openspaceman
quoting problem so post deleted

[openspaceman]

2 hours ago, Stere said:

 

 

This  my thinking more common sense.

 

Seems to me  people hate leaving piles to rot down as it look untidy but I can't see what the problem is with it is.

 

Ever do anything with air curtian buners?

 

 

The cost involved in processsing &  transporting tonnes of material many miles offsite to then pay for it to be disposed of at a official recycling centre  seems abit mad.

 

The local one has several  huge mountains  of  & what looks like mainly blackthorn scrub  unchipped   in there yard atm.

 

If not allowed  onside why not have an agreement with an adjacent farmer to use there land. They spread bought fert on the  pastureland   surounding the sites.

 

Heath was created & maintained  in the first place since the stone age  mostly just by grazing animals.

@doobin runs a mechanised vegetation business, he does what the client is willing to pay for the service, the client then decides what to have done. I'm not knocking that but I was hands on and whilst I did sit in a mulcher all day mowing hundreds of ha of rhododendron  I much preferred getting off the machine and doing motor manual of hand stuff in the fresh air.

 

Heath and coppice are artificial niches created by years of agrarian practices and the wildlife now associated with these habitats is valued, so they are maintained for this conservation need.

 

Most heathland locally is on poor sandy soil which was probably cleared for agriculture in the early iron age and became depleted and infertile as minerals were taken off or leached out.Hence they became wastes and were overgrazed by locals. Up until victorian times there was no question of leaving any plant products on site as locals valued it for burning or bedding. Also every few tens of years it would be burned to promote fresh shoots for grazing animals, still done on grouse moors. Which is why Cobbet referred to the area as "blasted heath"

 

Much vegetation gets composted and sold and it then contributes to Soil Organic Carbon, which is a major medium term carbon store. Some could be used as a carbon sink in a recalcitrant form rather than allowed to decay back into the atmospheric carbon dioxide.