unimog and the rules !! FACTS needed!

[openspaceman]

you have answered your own question really, its the domestic bit.

horticulture is growing for profit.

domestic and cricket/football gounds grass cutting etc are white diesel only.

 

Yes our posts crossed, it's the profit and entrepreneurial bit that separates it from domestic.

[Dean Lofthouse]

Whats the end result you are after ?

 

to be able to use red

 

or ease of paperwork.

[aspenarb]

you have answered your own question really, its the domestic bit.

horticulture is growing for profit.

domestic and cricket/football gounds grass cutting etc are white diesel only.

 

 

What is meant by agriculture, horticulture or forestry?

 

HMRC applies the following definitions of agriculture, horticulture and forestry:

 

Agriculture - the science and art of cultivating the soil, growing and gathering in crops, and rearing of livestock.

 

Horticulture - the science and art of cultivating or managing gardens, including the growing of flowers, fruits and vegetables.

 

Forestry - the science and art of forming and cultivating forests and the management of growing timber.

 

Its not how it reads so out of curiosity I will ask the question at HMRC and see what they come back with, as Catweazle points out there may well be a precedence already set.

 

8.20 reads or "managing gardens" , nothing in there defining the difference between commercial or domestic. I think I will write in for a request to define.

 

Bob

[Kev Stephenson]

It's fairly easy to be honest

 

Agriculture - you work to make a product to sell (crops, meat, milk, etc)

Forestry - you work to make a product to sell (timber)

Horticulture - you work to make a product to sell (plants)

Tree surgery / grounds maintenance- you provide a service to a customer. You are selling time and expertise not a physical product.

 

I have spoken to the authorities about this recently as I nearly bought a mog with chip bin. You basically have to treat it as an hgv. There are a few people who have in writing that they can run as ag registered and on red but this is utilising loop holes or not telling the whole truth when talking to the authorities. These letters would also not be transferable to new owners.

 

It's not a tractor as by definition they push pull or power but do not carry.

 

You are not (generally) carrying your own materials so can't compare it to hauling hay which as a farmer you would have grown for your own use.

 

Note this refers to a mog with chip bin. A mog with hiab and no chip bin would be different

[needenginerunnin]

the one thing that needs to go on the agri, hort and forestry is its for profit 99.99% of the time.

[drinksloe]

On a slight tangent but why would anyone want a mog nowadays?

 

I could understand it when tractors only done 18mph, but now most are almost as quick with 50km boxes.

Mog's were alwys pretty limited off road anyway, so if u need to be properly off road better with a tractor, esp if u do a lot of fencing. A chapper is useless unless ur can get it right were u need it.

 

But like most thigs horses for courses and depends wot u want it for. Must admit i've never been a big fan off them

[basilbrush]

My mate has a mog with a grab on it. We got stopped while on a tree surgery job at a school. They dipped his tank that was full of red and yes they did fine him. He now runs it totally on white....

[TIMON]

Ours is registered AG, but we have an O licence and we run it on white also it gets regular 6 week checks and our drivers have HGV licences. Recently we got stopped and tanks dipped etc.. As soon as they saw we were running on white diesel they were fine and seemed happy with our set up. If they wanted to apply the letter of the law they could probably insist that we register it HGV but as soon as they saw white diesel in it they were satisfied.

[twistedhicap]

On a slight tangent but why would anyone want a mog nowadays?

 

I could understand it when tractors only done 18mph, but now most are almost as quick with 50km boxes.

Mog's were alwys pretty limited off road anyway, so if u need to be properly off road better with a tractor, esp if u do a lot of fencing. A chapper is useless unless ur can get it right were u need it.

 

But like most thigs horses for courses and depends wot u want it for. Must admit i've never been a big fan off them

 

 

Legally unless the tractor has full suspension from and rear and individual brake units on all four hubs you cannot exceed 25mph !

 

 

Direct copy from gov.co.uk

 

An effective speed limit of 25 mph will be applied for conventional tractors. Modern tractors are designed to safely travel at speeds of up to, or over 25 mph, but current regulations restrict their speed to 20 mph, lower than many other EU countries. We are therefore unnecessarily restricting our farmers, adding time and cost on to their operations. Those tractors allowed to exceed 25 mph will continue to be subject to tighter design and regulatory requirement

 

 

So Fastracs Mogs (without carrying capacity or chip boxes) and the old Trantor I believe to be the only ones that can do more than 25mph legally

 

Conventional tractors are classed among other things as having a fixed rear axle ie no suspension regardless of front axle suspension that can't count alone !

[agrimog]

I think youll find that the actual description of a tractor is covered by the construction and use act, a three point linkage and pto, is a major requirment, and nowhere does it mention no loads, and the name unimog, means tractor, as I said before, there are NO grey areas, its all written down in black and white, its only when "tree sugeons" try to say that its forestry work or horticultural work that problems arise, in 10 years of running a mog, and being stopped several times, I've never had a problem because I printed out the rules, laminated them, along with rules for use of red diesel, and keep them in the vehicle. DVSA"VOSA" cannot make up there own rules, and when presented with a copy, they will back down, so will plod