Risk assessments and method statements...for the last time, hopefully!

[Highland Forestry]

Here's some I found kicking about the laptop.. not just RA's but a few different red tape forms..

My generic RA is in hard copy so cant post that but like john, it;s about 25 odd pages long..

 

Would be interesting to see some examples of risk assessments for forestry rather than just arboriculture..

 

 

DRUGS AND ALCOHOL POLICY.doc

 

Environmental Risk Assessment.doc

 

HEALTH AND SAFETY POLICY STATEMENT.doc

 

Knapsack Calibration Sheet.doc

 

LONE WORKING PROCEDURE.doc

 

method statement.doc

 

RAchecklist.doc

 

Record of Pesticide Application.doc

[Rob D]

Being honest here are people doing risk assessments for say pruning an apple tree? Or maybe small reduction on oak in a back garden? Or doing risk assessments at all? I started doing them 2 years ago when I had a student, did 3 or 4 then wondered why I was bothering. You only need them if something goes wrong to prove you've assessed the risk and taken the correct precautions. I used to work in the health service and spent my life filling in forms. So out in the open here I don't do a written risk assessment unless working where you need to show one or the job is particularly involved or complex.

 

However I assess risk and act accordingly at every job I do - I just don't write it down. Also I don't know anyone else doing tree work near me that has a lovely tidy book of filled in risk assessments and method statements.

 

The main reason I will write a risk assessment is so that people know what to do when something does go wrong i.e. where is first aid kit? do you have a mobile signal? nearest hospital, address where we're working for ambulance etc.

 

If I'm working by a road then signs will be put out and if needed traffic lights. If working over a public footpath then groundsmen need flourescent jackets and a signal system to say the path is clear. Dangerous tree - get a MEWP. But do we have to write all this down every time? It's a meaningless waste of ink to run down a form sticking in a long line of ticks to show we've considered that or considered this.

 

Do we have to write 'road' = high severity, likelihood of incident high, therefore controls to reduce risk = signs out, high vis jackets on, traffic control in place. It's obvious we need to do this working by a road.

 

But in the real world we have to have something. But if we do have to have something can we not cut through all the bulls*@t and fit it onto a single A4 page! Not saying mine below is any good - just trying to bring something constructive to the party!

 

Risk Assess.doc

 

This below is the sort of thing I think is just a waste of time and paper.

 

Risk Assess2.doc

[Highland Forestry]

Rob - one of the main reasons I do a risk assessment for EVERY job, regardless of how big or small is to have a paper trail..... if the worse happens and my insurance are nit picking, I want to make sure they have no choice but to pay out and cant find anything wrong with the company or the H & S.

 

Once you get into the habit of doing the RA's it just becomes part of the job.... I can even get my guys to go on-site and do thier risk assessment, it's just check boxes and they are paid to do what I ask them to do, if the risk assessment is part of that then theres no excuse for not doing it.

[Rob D]

But what you're saying is that you're doing the risk assessment to make sure the insurance company pay out - not to mitigate risk!

 

I spent a long long long time speaking to Bryant and Kesek about how my insurance works and when and how it will pay out. In short it will pay out if I am grossly negligent and cause damage to persons or property through my own wrong doing/foolishness.

 

However if there is an accident and I have taken all due precaution to avoid it then there is a chance the insurance won't pay out. It's an accident and so there is a chance the customer would have to claim on their own insurance.

 

I am not prepared to fill out forms for the sake of it. In court if it comes to it I will stand up and say what precautions were taken and how I assessed and acted on risk. But I have a very small operation with no employees (I use people only on a sub contracting basis). With a larger company you have no choice but to follow all the procedures.

 

And that is why I will never be a large company!!

[Highland Forestry]

But what you're saying is that you're doing the risk assessment to make sure the insurance company pay out - not to mitigate risk!

 

I spent a long long long time speaking to Bryant and Kesek about how my insurance works and when and how it will pay out. In short it will pay out if I am grossly negligent and cause damage to persons or property through my own wrong doing/foolishness.

 

However if there is an accident and I have taken all due precaution to avoid it then there is a chance the insurance won't pay out. It's an accident and so there is a chance the customer would have to claim on their own insurance.

 

I am not prepared to fill out forms for the sake of it. In court if it comes to it I will stand up and say what precautions were taken and how I assessed and acted on risk. But I have a very small operation with no employees (I use people only on a sub contracting basis). With a larger company you have no choice but to follow all the procedures.

 

And that is why I will never be a large company!!

 

 

I have 9 guys, and if I dont do it properly then i'm buggered basically.

 

If you take on a sub-contractor for 1 day a year, you need to have employers liability insurance (regardless of the contractors insurance) and you also need to have risk assessments in place.... I'm not saying I am whiter than white, because I know i'm not, and nobody here could honestly say they are, but at least I make an effort to take care of myself, my business and the guys I employ..... I will fill out the forms for the sake of it if it means we're legit.... what you have said sounds like you cant be arsed doing the paperwork.... you're not alone.

 

Regarding standing in court and explaining how you assessed the risks - they will ask you to prove that you did a risk assessment and they will want to see a hard copy of it, not just you're word that you did it, honest your honour.

[Rob D]

Just for the record I have full employers liability - indeed I am insured up to the hilt! Of course you need to have liability for your sub contractors. You need to have proper emergency procedures in place and you need to discuss risk at each job. I make an effort to work safely and for the people I work with to work safely but I don't feel on many jobs that a written risk assessment reduces risk or makes me or the people I work with any safer - so I don't do one.

 

Secondly its not that I can't be arsed to do the paperwork - I do written risk assessments on more unusual, dangerous work or jobs next to roads etc where risks are greater but this is a rarity. But I do not do the paperwork just for the sake of ticking boxes on umpteen forms so I have a backup for a later court date. If I saw a point to the paperwork then I would do it i.e. it's not laziness or lack of time.

 

I've been in a few tribunals albeit in the health world many years ago and many associated issues can be transfered over to the arb world. Yes you should have a hard copy of a risk assessment but if you can demonstrate in court the ways you mitigated risk and can back this up with evidence of controls carried out on the day then you can still prove that you have assessed risk.

 

If you employ any number of people in the conventional way you really have no choice but to follow convention and do the paperwork.

 

In a practical way and getting back to the main thread what I am suggesting is at least make the risk assessment as concise as possible with a box at the bottom to cover any unusual elements.

 

To a certain extent I'm playing devil's advocate here - but I am standing up to be counted rather than a great many who complain endlessly about how meaningless a lot of health and safety is but do and say nothing against it.

[Mesterh]

TBH I dont bother with written risk assessments by law we dont have to since we have less than 5 employees.

 

If Steve gets a good one sorted that is a very quick tick box jobbie then I will start using them on the bigger jobs. I still prob wont bother on stupidly small stuff tbh.

 

We do do RA's but they are verbally.

[gibbon]

I now use the AA generic and site specific RA, and we do use them for most jobs.

 

Before I used these I just had a breif section added to the quote form which I have added below. May be of use to someone.

old quote template.doc

[Hawkes Trees]

Thanks very much to everyone for the posted info above. You have saved me a ton of work in reviewing my own risk assesments.

 

Steve

[Khriss]

Hmmmm-so 28pages of 'ticky boxes ' ? Is somebody bullshittin here?

 

K

 

( Might as well put ' Its a bit risky innnit ?' )