Another zigzag bites the dust!!!!

[jomoco]

So using such brave logic bout swivels bein so pointless n all?

 

Begs the question of what logic drove the decision for Petzl to have any swiveling function at all?

 

Fairly pointless thing from such brave lads way out on a limb!

 

A rope can bend over 180 degrees along a 360 degree radius, a chain can't.

 

The chain's intended critical function is along an unvarying linear line, a straight shot.

 

Actually go to the Petzl link on the first page of this thread look at the pics of where the chain links are fracturing, the most highly leveraged links closest to the attachment on the cheek plates, that should swivel in order to prevent chain links from being leveraged laterally and fracturing.

http://www.petzl.com/files/all/all/communication-zigzag/ZIGZAG-information-080414-EN.pdf

Go with the flow, bend or break, that sorta thing lads.

 

Or would that be just another swivel too far starring Alec Guinness?

 

Jomoco:biggrin:

Edited May 24, 2014 by jomoco

[mendiplogs]

I had a swivel on my bridge about 4 years ago as I thought it might alleviate the hocking of my climb line.

 

The swivel just made the problems 10x worse.

 

I stand by Marks comment that a swivel is pretty pointless in this type of application.

 

Hi MARK)RICH why not recall the lot of before some gets hurt then it may cost them loads of money BUT THEN WHAT DO I NO THANKS JON

[5 shires]

If petzl have sent out a statement regarding the problems with the zigzag and have made a recall on them they have covered there backs so if anyone continues to use it and it fails then surely that person won't get any come back and is putting there safety at risk if they have any problems after the date which were given for recall etc. Am I correct in thinking that?

[normandylumberjack]

If petzl have sent out a statement regarding the problems with the zigzag and have made a recall on them they have covered there backs so if anyone continues to use it and it fails then surely that person won't get any come back and is putting there safety at risk if they have any problems after the date which were given for recall etc. Am I correct in thinking that?

 

I think that the statement was only released online? I didn't get a letter from the dealer about my one, as I doubt they send them, but to assume that all climbers use the net, or would go looking online for this info, is an assumption too far imo, dealers know who has purchased them, that info should be passed to petzl and letters sent imo.

[carlos]

I think that the statement was only released online? I didn't get a letter from the dealer about my one, as I doubt they send them, but to assume that all climbers use the net, or would go looking online for this info, is an assumption too far imo, dealers know who has purchased them, that info should be passed to petzl and letters sent imo.

 

as far as i know there is no recall on the mk2 one, just a news update saying they now have had six broken ones back and dont know why they broke.

[5 shires]

I think that the statement was only released online? I didn't get a letter from the dealer about my one, as I doubt they send them, but to assume that all climbers use the net, or would go looking online for this info, is an assumption too far imo, dealers know who has purchased them, that info should be passed to petzl and letters sent imo.

 

Ya totely agree with what you say. I wonder how many zags have been sold and how many are still being used by climbers who are not in the loop with laptops, iPads etc and know about the problems petzl are having with them. Or are petzl confident that the fault is't going to cause a climber to fall as a result of the fracture occurring we're they are.

[jomoco]

as far as i know there is no recall on the mk2 one, just a news update saying they now have had six broken ones back and dont know why they broke.

 

Jumping over a lateral limb, or though a crotch with everything and then hanging your entire climbing weight on a short choked zigzag climbing setup could exert the very forces responsible for six failures to date?

 

Much like they simulated by putting a unit locked to a vice, and applying lateral off axis loads to the point of failure.

 

If it can happen once?

 

Biners fail by off axis dynamic loading too.

 

Jomoco

[Marc]

Ya totely agree with what you say. I wonder how many zags have been sold and how many are still being used by climbers who are not in the loop with laptops, iPads etc and know about the problems petzl are having with them. Or are petzl confident that the fault is't going to cause a climber to fall as a result of the fracture occurring we're they are.

 

At the end of the day it surely is upon us as professionals to inspect our kit daily and keep in the loop so to speak if we use this type of equipment. For me Petzl have done a good job at keeping us informed. How many are still using the Kong rings, or treeflex shackles etc without being aware of possible circumstances where these items of kit may fail.

 

And @Jomoco I understand exactly what your getting at, in this instance though I do not feel the piece of kit needs to be designed to flex in all directions, just look at other items of kit like the Uni or lock jack all are possible of being side loaded against their axis so to speak, it's upon us to climb safe when using these bits of kit and keep them properly orientated.

All the failures in the field that I am aware of have failed on the non critical link with the lowest off axis leverage point, the one in the Petzl statement is an example of a failure done during extreme test conditions and was cut by Petzl to present the worst case scenario, they so far have not been able to replicate what is happening to a small percentage in the field, and as it's not in a critical place which would lead to life threatening failure so no recall has yet been made. Still not good and leads me to think its a manufacturing defect/design flaw, oh well here is hoping for an improved mk3 with no swivel rounded fair lead edges and a 3rd attachment hole a la Hitchclimber.

 

Swivels are great, just on your harness I fail to see an advantage but hey it's super cool.

And I'm not the Petzl ambassador that'll be Silky Fox

Edited May 24, 2014 by Marc

[carlos]

At the end of the day it surely is upon us as professionals to inspect our kit daily and keep in the loop so to speak if we use this type of equipment. For me Petzl have done a good job at keeping us informed. How many are still using the Kong rings, or treeflex shackles etc without being aware of possible circumstances where these items of kit may fail.

 

And @Jomoco I understand exactly what your getting at, in this instance though I do not feel the piece of kit needs to be designed to flex in all directions, just look at other items of kit like the Uni or lock jack all are possible of being side loaded against their axis so to speak, it's upon us to climb safe when using these bits of kit and keep them properly orientated.

All the failures in the field that I am aware of have failed on the non critical link with the lowest off axis leverage point, the one in the Petzl statement is an example of a failure done during extreme test conditions and was cut by Petzl to present the worst case scenario, they so far have not been able to replicate what is happening to a small percentage in the field, and as it's not in a critical place which would lead to life threatening failure so no recall has yet been made. Still not good and leads me to think its a manufacturing defect/design flaw, oh well here is hoping for an improved mk3 with no swivel rounded fair lead edges and a 3rd attachment hole a la Hitchclimber.

 

Swivels are great, just on your harness I fail to see an advantage but hey it's super cool.

And I'm not the Petzl ambassador that'll be Silky Fox

 

whats this about treeflex shackles???

oh and silky has gone a bit quiet on this one!

[DrewB]

Would be very unfair to expect petzl to contact every purchaser of a zigzag 2 IF they did a recall...