somerset floods

[tomw]

correct me if wrong, but do farmers these days need to apply for a licence before they dig there ditches out???

 

Yes that's correct. So much paperwork involved the job becomes low on farmers list. Some white collar officer would have to come out on a joy ride and inspect the said ditch, write a report, tell the farmer where to put the spoil which he would probably have to cart away at vast expense. Result is farmer thinks oh b.gger it, it won't flood and job never gets done..

[muldonach]

+1 thank you someone on my wavelenght re plant hedges grubbed out. dig ditches around fields to stop run off from fields. lay and maintain hedges. not just flail them. its not the farmers fault they have a budget and these things cost. so HLS countryside stewardship scheme instead of margins laying fallow to get grants pay the farmers to re plant lay and maintain hedges and dig ditches and keep them cleaned each season. it will not stop the floods but it will help to stop some of the run off from fields going into water courses and may find that they do not have so much wind scoure.. less pesticides needed or rodentacides as this will increase the owl population and the insects who feed on aphids and the like. but this is commen sence which was done for hundreds of years when farms had labour. now one tractor driver to a farm.

also the benifits as this post this will give work to hedgelayers who can employ cutters to help. coppicers would be busy getting material for laying hedges. this is a revenue that the tresury will get back in tax,s

work for ditchers ned no more than a 1.5 tonne machine. keep many busy all during the winter digging out and keeping them clean to go back on the land so making the soil moreproductive. off soap box

 

Without wishing to be contentious are you felling with crosscuts and axes, snedding with axes and using horses for extractions?

 

Digging ditches around fields does not stop run-off it - it concentrates and accelerates and accelerates it.

 

The problem on the somerset levels is that most of them are actually below the level of the "rivers"

 

Cheers

mac

[mendiplogs]

Just seen that no trains are running past Bristol. The parret has broken its banks and flooded the main line.

 

HI MATE it mad :thumbdown:down there on the leaves theres locals helping each other out how locals do but they do not have the LARGE KIT THAT THEY NEED LIKE LARGE TRACTOR THEY ALL SO NEED STONE DOWN FOR A PATH FOR THE SIDE OF RIVER FOR LOCALS TO WALK ALONG AS THE ROADS NOW 3FT DEEP IN FLOOD WATER IT MAD DOWN YOU HAVE MP:thumbdown: GOING SAYING YOU WILL GET HELP BUT WERE IS THIS HELP NOW WERE TO BE FIND:thumbdown: THANKS JON

[muldonach]

How deep are you going to dredge the rivers? The point being they are tidal. If you dredge them too deep you let the Bristol Channel in, hence flooding from sea water. It's been said before in this thread it's the shear amount of rain fall that as caused the problem. I was down at Jon's place two weeks before Christmas, it was pouring with rain then and it ain't stopped since.

 

The way to stop the rivers becoming flooded is to hold the water back until the level of the river drops then you let the water that as been held back into the river. That's why many, many years ago we came up with the idea of sacrificing land. We call this land flood plains. And that's what the levels are.Flood plains!

 

The Government are now going to make a token gesture and dredge the rivers. This will as you say help somewhat. But it won't stop the same thing happening again should we have the same amount of rainfall. The rivers that run through the fens are dredged all the time. Yet when we have prolonged rainfall the same villages still get flooded. Proof for me that dredging rivers does not stop low lying land from flooding.

 

You can dredge the rivers until they match the bottom of the Atlantic ocean and it will not alter the effect of the tide one iota, nor cause any more tidal flooding than you get today.

 

Flood plains are a naturally occuring class of land that tends to be both fertile and easily cultivated, hence the enthusiasm in many parts of the world for controlling water levels on it and using it as farmland.

 

While sympathetic to your reasoning to an extent if you hold water back then you are in effect merely shifting the flooding upstream. Similarly in order to "let the water that has been held back into the river" it may be necessary to ensure that the river is actually flowing - allowing silt to build up until the river is only capable of transporting 50-60% of its previous flow rate is hardly helping to mitigate flooding. it is perfectly correct to argue that if you slow down water flow by poor drainage then spate effects will be lower in magnitude but longer in duration - as we are seeing.

 

Yes dredging rivers will not stop flooding but it is another tool in the shed to mitigate flooding and needs to be used when appropriate - which in the case of the Somerset Levels and the Fens would appear to be the case.

 

Cheers

mac

[skyhuck]

You can dredge the rivers until they match the bottom of the Atlantic ocean and it will not alter the effect of the tide one iota, nor cause any more tidal flooding than you get today.

 

Flood plains are a naturally occuring class of land that tends to be both fertile and easily cultivated, hence the enthusiasm in many parts of the world for controlling water levels on it and using it as farmland.

 

While sympathetic to your reasoning to an extent if you hold water back then you are in effect merely shifting the flooding upstream. Similarly in order to "let the water that has been held back into the river" it may be necessary to ensure that the river is actually flowing - allowing silt to build up until the river is only capable of transporting 50-60% of its previous flow rate is hardly helping to mitigate flooding. it is perfectly correct to argue that if you slow down water flow by poor drainage then spate effects will be lower in magnitude but longer in duration - as we are seeing.

 

Yes dredging rivers will not stop flooding but it is another tool in the shed to mitigate flooding and needs to be used when appropriate - which in the case of the Somerset Levels and the Fens would appear to be the case.

 

Cheers

mac

 

[renewablejohn]

John.

 

Having worked in the water industry for many years, maintaining everything from surface water sewers to dredging rivers and most things in between i don't think I need to go on a forum where the majority of answers to questions about planning and the likes is JFDI!

 

I'll stick with the facts. Dredging the rivers on the levels won't stop them flooding.

 

Ok stick with the facts. Here is the drainage plan the EA are working with until 2015 when its up for review.

 

http://www.somersetdrainageboards.gov.uk/approved_plans_WestMoor.pdf

 

If you look at page 23 the new water management policy for the levels are outlined. So basically the low water table in winter for farming has been abandoned to be replaced by a high water table for the birds. Hence the flooding on the levels by the end of December prior to any heavy rains.

[mendiplogs]

Ok stick with the facts. Here is the drainage plan the EA are working with until 2015 when its up for review.

 

http://www.somersetdrainageboards.gov.uk/approved_plans_WestMoor.pdf

 

If you look at page 23 the new water management policy for the levels are outlined. So basically the low water table in winter for farming has been abandoned to be replaced by a high water table for the birds. Hence the flooding on the levels by the end of December prior to any heavy rains.

 

HI ALL ive been talking to farmers today down THEY TOLD THE EA COME THERE OVER A YEAR AGO AND ALL THE DONE IN THAT TIME RISE THE SIDE OF THE RIVER BANKS THAT NO GOOD AT ALL NOW IS THE COST TO THE COST TO RUN THE PUMPS THE SMALLER 20" ONES ARE £20K A DAY WELL WHEN THEY RUN THERE 4FT PUMP WHATS DOWN THERE WILL COST MORE MONEY IT ALL MAD DOWN THERE THANKS JON

[shavey]

i see now all rail links have been closed to devon cornwall two floods on the levels and and a landslip at crewkerne

[skyhuck]

I may be a bit of a cynic, but I wonder if the powers that be have miscalculated, I think they like a certain level of disaster, it helps them sell the whole "global warming" thing, which allows them to tax us in the name of green wash. I think there has be deliberate lack of action to allow a certain level of disaster, but its been way worse than they expected.

 

I could be wrong.

[shavey]

who knows in this day and age nothing suprises these days so it could be a possibility